I'm really sorry to hear that.
Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support
- Thread starter Zabo
- Start date
I'm really sorry to hear that.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Sorry to hear that. Was there a time limit imposed for reconsideration the last time? If so, you should remind them that you're not due to be called for interview yet.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Perhaps add "get a medical dictionary, and look up the definition of a 'progressive illness', you knuckleheads!".
Puddy_Tat
happy mew year
more an ESA question than atos, but thought I'd bung it here
the friend I've mentioned once or twice has been offered a part time (may be up to 30 hours a week) job.
obviously he's going to 'sign off' ESA (and I've suggested working tax credits) - but has some concerns
a) will the fact he's taken a job be held against him if it doesn't work out and he has to go back on to ESA?
b) is there a 'rapid reclaim' system, or will he have to go through all the atos shit again? (although to be honest, he must be about due a review)
He's been in the 'support group', and job is something he's found, not something that has been suggested through any work programme / adviser
the friend I've mentioned once or twice has been offered a part time (may be up to 30 hours a week) job.
obviously he's going to 'sign off' ESA (and I've suggested working tax credits) - but has some concerns
a) will the fact he's taken a job be held against him if it doesn't work out and he has to go back on to ESA?
b) is there a 'rapid reclaim' system, or will he have to go through all the atos shit again? (although to be honest, he must be about due a review)
He's been in the 'support group', and job is something he's found, not something that has been suggested through any work programme / adviser
There's supposed to be a system of 'permitted work' where you can agree with the DWP a job that doesn't jeopardise a claim. Unfortunately i don't know the details and i think it might be limited hours.
So, er, that was helpful wasn't it
So, er, that was helpful wasn't it
Asperger peeps shouldn't attend the assessment centre.
Interesting.
I have a diagnostic appointment on friday for asperger diagnosis.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Let us know how you get on. I hope it is helpful to you.
i will but I may have screwed up because i forgot to reply within the time limit. Hopefully this will not be a problem.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
But you forgot because of your ongoing medical issues, did you not?
I'd like to think so,reading letters as thoroughly as I should is symptomatic of my experience.
That's my sad excuse anyway.
That's my sad excuse anyway.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
I'm filling out a form on behalf of someone with ME and I can't work out what the hell to put for the 'how far can you walk' question. It's ridiculous, who the fuck measures how far they can walk every day? The work and benefits guide talks about framing in a way that relates to activities like shopping. Shall I put in 'I can walk 100 metres on a good day, 50 on a medium day and sod all on a bad day' or 'I can go to the shop near my home but only buy a small bag of items, I have to take breaks and when I get home again I have to rest before putting the items away.' What's more there's no room for nuance at all, like if I (I being my friend) have done something else before I walked somewhere, like cooking it will effect how far I can walk on that day, be it a good or medium one, on a bad day even getting out of bed is out of the question. Making people who are ill do this bullshit is bordering on barbarism. I'm not even unwell and it's doing my fucking head in!
'How long can you stand on your head, poke yourself in the eye and blow bubbles out your arse?' - 7 hours
Next!
Arrrgh! Fuck Off!!!!!!
'How long can you stand on your head, poke yourself in the eye and blow bubbles out your arse?' - 7 hours
Next!
Arrrgh! Fuck Off!!!!!!
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
It's ok I think I'm a bit more on the right track with it now. They're sneaky fucking bastards.
Libertad
Sparking up a rollie in the Reichstag
Yes they are.
If your situation has not changed then why not reuse it? You might add at certain points
, 'This has not changed since I last completed this form on X.'
WouldBe
Dislicksick
Word it this way. Examples should always be done as if it's your worst day possible. Emphasise the pain it causes in walking short distances and how long you need to rest before putting things away. Your friend should be able to walk no further than 50M before needing to take a break and preferably shorter than that. If the pain is so severe it causes your friend to throw up then say so, that always goes down well especially at tribunals.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Thank you WouldBe but you see this is the problem I have. People on the ME support group say don't word it on your worst day because it looks like you're trying to ham it up, even though on her worst day she can't get out of bed. I'm just going by what she feels most of the time and that's in pain and knackered.
I'm trying not to get wound up by it because it doesn't help and she'll feel guilty because it's taking up quite a lot of my time and that doesn't help her. However she won't see this so.....
ARRRGH!!!! WHAT A BUNCH OF SNIVELLING LITTLE CUNTS! VICIOUS, VICIOUS FUCKS MAKING ILL PEOPLE JUMP THROUGH THESE BULLSHIT HOOPS JUST TO KEEP THIS POXY FUCKING NEO LIBERAL ARSE DRIBBLING AFLOAT!!!!!! ARRGGHHHH!!!!
Ahhhhh......that's better
I'm trying not to get wound up by it because it doesn't help and she'll feel guilty because it's taking up quite a lot of my time and that doesn't help her. However she won't see this so.....
ARRRGH!!!! WHAT A BUNCH OF SNIVELLING LITTLE CUNTS! VICIOUS, VICIOUS FUCKS MAKING ILL PEOPLE JUMP THROUGH THESE BULLSHIT HOOPS JUST TO KEEP THIS POXY FUCKING NEO LIBERAL ARSE DRIBBLING AFLOAT!!!!!! ARRGGHHHH!!!!
Ahhhhh......that's better
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I'm filling out a form on behalf of someone with ME and I can't work out what the hell to put for the 'how far can you walk' question. It's ridiculous, who the fuck measures how far they can walk every day? The work and benefits guide talks about framing in a way that relates to activities like shopping. Shall I put in 'I can walk 100 metres on a good day, 50 on a medium day and sod all on a bad day' or 'I can go to the shop near my home but only buy a small bag of items, I have to take breaks and when I get home again I have to rest before putting the items away.' What's more there's no room for nuance at all, like if I (I being my friend) have done something else before I walked somewhere, like cooking it will effect how far I can walk on that day, be it a good or medium one, on a bad day even getting out of bed is out of the question. Making people who are ill do this bullshit is bordering on barbarism. I'm not even unwell and it's doing my fucking head in!
'How long can you stand on your head, poke yourself in the eye and blow bubbles out your arse?' - 7 hours
Next!
Arrrgh! Fuck Off!!!!!!
Just to give you some idea of what's worked for me, I answer the basic questions (in terms of the tick boxes), then add (in the "tell us more" section) "please see additional sheet #...", and give them chapter and verse on the additional sheet. I do this for every section of the form that requires it. It's a fair bit of extra work, but it allows you to inject some nuance. You should also aim to note what you're capable of as what you're able to do on your WORST day, not your best or your average day (despite what they ask). Also, try to write from the POV of "what I'm unable to do, unless", rather than "I can sometimes do that, but..." as they'll only pay attention to "I can do that".
Also, w/r/t walking, I always put exactly what's up - that I can't walk at all without pain, and that the pain (and the additional fatigue that the pain causes) gets worse (and more fatiguing) the more I walk. I then put down my worst time and distance. I don't mention what I can do on a good day, because they will automatically apply that to ALL your days.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
If you think that the ESA50 is bad for sneakiness, you should have seen the DLA forms.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Thanks a lot VP. I think ME is quite an easy condition to explain now that I think I've understood this form. On her worst day she can do fuck all, can't even get out of bed and if she has to it involves crawling, slowly. I'm gonna give an example of the sort of things I'm doing for every question. I'll give the walking example, name changed for privacy. In fact I'll PM you.
It's not hamming it up if it's the truth! the CAB also say this is how you should answer it.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Also if she takes any medicines, list all of them and their side effects. If you PM me a list I can do this for you.
Take special note of any that have the same side effect as they'll likely work together to make that side effect worse.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Yeah I've gone with what she experiences most of the time, which is essentially she can do bugger all without experiencing symptoms and anything she does do makes it worse causing her to rest to get back to the level of general acheyness, fatigue etc. VP is helping me out via PM.
equationgirl said:
I don't think she takes any meds but I'll take you up on that if it transpires she does, thanks!
WouldBe
Dislicksick
I think, though not wishing to presume, it's what most people are advising.My solicitor advised me to do this as well and he used to work for the DWP.
Atos assesors (tossers, for short?) may try to discourage your answers at an assessment if you start by saying "on my worst day I feel..." by trying to ask you how you feel there and then, in the moment. Is that the correct procedure?
You need to correlate the symptoms/problems to the descriptors and give evidence that backs this up (which means the doctors have to do likewise).
scifisam
deleted
You also have to think of yourself when you were well, or compare yourself to people who are well. Otherwise you just get too used to making do, even when you're actually causing yourself pain or making your condition worse.
My local council has a bit on its housing page where they say someone with rheumatoid arthritis (which I have) doesn't merit an upgrade because they can manage the steps outside their house. I can, and so can most people with any mobility in their upper limbs, because at my worst I can crawl up the steps, even though that causes me a lot of pain because my elbows, shoulders and hands are fucked. And it takes a long time and, despite what my council say on the same housing page, RA is a progressive condition.
It's not the same as my grandad needing to actually be carried up and down any stairs, but it's also not the same as just striding up them.
My local council has a bit on its housing page where they say someone with rheumatoid arthritis (which I have) doesn't merit an upgrade because they can manage the steps outside their house. I can, and so can most people with any mobility in their upper limbs, because at my worst I can crawl up the steps, even though that causes me a lot of pain because my elbows, shoulders and hands are fucked. And it takes a long time and, despite what my council say on the same housing page, RA is a progressive condition.
It's not the same as my grandad needing to actually be carried up and down any stairs, but it's also not the same as just striding up them.
Doctor Carrot
Marxist Henchman
Very good point, sam. I'm writing it on someone else's behalf and I'm trying to do it along the lines of 'right, I'm sitting here and I'm conscious that I'm not in any pain or feeling tired. I can go into the kitchen and make myself a sandwich and a cup of tea, then I could pop down the shops for some milk and a pack of smokes, pop back and then call my mum. I can do that when I want, however many times I want and there's not going to be any consequences in terms of pain and fatigue to these actions. Can my friend do these things whenever she wants? No because she is in pain/tired the majority of the time and doing anything increases those symptoms.'
It's the 'you must be able to do the activity safely, to an acceptable standard, as often as you need to and in a reasonable length of time' that really needs to be paid attention to. If one or more of these things apply then you can't do it.
I'm also going with not ticking any boxes and just going straight for explanations because if I, say, tick 'can move 50 metres' I'm saying my friend can do that with no issue at all. She of course can do this because like most people with chronic conditions she just muddles through. It's because she can't do this without feeling any symptoms, because she feels them all the time, I haven't ticked it.
It's the 'you must be able to do the activity safely, to an acceptable standard, as often as you need to and in a reasonable length of time' that really needs to be paid attention to. If one or more of these things apply then you can't do it.
I'm also going with not ticking any boxes and just going straight for explanations because if I, say, tick 'can move 50 metres' I'm saying my friend can do that with no issue at all. She of course can do this because like most people with chronic conditions she just muddles through. It's because she can't do this without feeling any symptoms, because she feels them all the time, I haven't ticked it.
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