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Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

Got my appeal date through the post (which has only just come - even for December the post has never been this late before) today: 30th of December. Can't say I'm looking forward to it. I imagine I will be examined by people who will sternly find me wanting. I'm not really expecting to pass, at all. I think it will be a bloody miracle. My goal was to get into the WRAG (the one IDS wants rid of), not the Support group, but I suspect they don't look at it in that way. I'm not really keen on attending at the magistrates court, which is the venue in question.

What happens if you fail? Does your ESA stop there and then?
 
That part of it isn't an issue. I don't celebrate Christmas anyway, I can easily do without all the hoopla (too many people around in town just makes my head spin). Which i'm sure makes me sound like Mr B. A. H. Humbug
 
Awesome Wells said:
Got my appeal date through the post (which has only just come - even for December the post has never been this late before) today: 30th of December. Can't say I'm looking forward to it. I imagine I will be examined by people who will sternly find me wanting. I'm not really expecting to pass, at all. I think it will be a bloody miracle. My goal was to get into the WRAG (the one IDS wants rid of), not the Support group, but I suspect they don't look at it in that way. I'm not really keen on attending at the magistrates court, which is the venue in question.

What happens if you fail? Does your ESA stop there and then?
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breathe.

tribunals aren't designed to be intimidating. i've sat through much scarier job interviews.

impression i got at the DLA appeal I say though was they were looking for reasons to find in favour of the claimant, it was the DWP on trial, don't forget these are the tribunals the DWP is trying to keep people from accessing with their mandatory non time limited and unpaid reconsiderations. try to know your descriptors and you will then know what they are after with any particular question. if you can give them information that fits the descriptors, they will find for you.
 
Awesome Wells said:
Got my appeal date through the post (which has only just come - even for December the post has never been this late before) today: 30th of December. Can't say I'm looking forward to it. I imagine I will be examined by people who will sternly find me wanting. I'm not really expecting to pass, at all. I think it will be a bloody miracle. My goal was to get into the WRAG (the one IDS wants rid of), not the Support group, but I suspect they don't look at it in that way. I'm not really keen on attending at the magistrates court, which is the venue in question.

What happens if you fail? Does your ESA stop there and then?
Click to expand...

It's a tribunal. The people who'll be hearing your case aren't functionaries of the DWP, they're neutral(-ish) participants who are utterly used, by now, to seeing disabled people who should be on ESA but were turned down, come before them. As long as you don't contradict yourself and/or any evidence you've presented, you stand as good a chance as anyone of a good outcome.
 
Let's hope the tribunal people are at least neutral. But I maintain it's best to assume the worst and hope for the best. If they pass me then that's a nice Christmas present. If they don't, well at least I'm prepared.

Half the battle has been trying to explain how the system works to my GP (or whoever's sitting in for him as he seems to be 'away' half the time). I cannot understand these people, they tell me they are willing to help they even agree to write a letter, but what I get seems to suggest the GP has gone out of his way to avoid explicitly endorsing my claim. They don't like signing people off telling me variously that it will 'medicalise' the issues, or that signing people off is a death sentence (as opposed to sanctions and poverty of course). When I try to explain how the system works I feel they dismiss me as if I'm making excuses. The worst part of their ignorance is that they think they can still intervene; that, despite me trying to tell them otherwise, if I fail the tribunal they can step in somehow. It makes no sense.

My case was dealt with by Lowestoft DWP people it seems. The CAB tell me that the DWP is so overwhelmed they farm out cases to other offices, less busy at the time. The tribunal is being held t the local magistrates however, which sounds horribly ominous. I can't help worrying; it's my nature. Anxiety is like that. It's a bitch.
 
Awesome Wells said:
Let's hope the tribunal people are at least neutral. But I maintain it's best to assume the worst and hope for the best. If they pass me then that's a nice Christmas present. If they don't, well at least I'm prepared.

<snip>My case was dealt with by Lowestoft DWP people it seems. The CAB tell me that the DWP is so overwhelmed they farm out cases to other offices, less busy at the time. The tribunal is being held t the local magistrates however, which sounds horribly ominous. I can't help worrying; it's my nature. Anxiety is like that. It's a bitch.
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FWIW the tribunal panel (often 3 people) frequently includes at least one person with a disability or long term health problem as well as somebody with a medical background.

If somebody from the DWP turns up, they'll be given no easier a time than you are, and they won't be on the panel.

A magistrates' court may be chosen as a suitable building because it has to be somewhere more or less accessible, and with a large enough room to accommodate about 9 adults sat quite far apart around a few tables. Stressful yes, but it's really not an interrogation.

Good luck at your appeal's tribunal, although IMHO if there's any justice in the world luck will have very little to do with a fair decision being made in your favour.
 
Greebo said:
FWIW the tribunal panel (often 3 people) frequently includes at least one person with a disability or long term health problem as well as somebody with a medical background.

If somebody from the DWP turns up, they'll be given no easier a time than you are, and they won't be on the panel.

A magistrates' court may be chosen as a suitable building because it has to be somewhere more or less accessible, and with a large enough room to accommodate about 9 adults sat quite far apart around a few tables. Stressful yes, but it's really not an interrogation.

Good luck at your appeal's tribunal, although IMHO if there's any justice in the world luck will have very little to do with a fair decision being made in your favour.
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9?

for us, 3 tribunal members, a recorder, me and him.
 
toggle said:
9?

for us, 3 tribunal members, a recorder, me and him.
Click to expand...
3 tribunal members, the DWP person, VP, his representative, me, and the recorder - that's 8 all told and there were enough chairs for others if required.
 
Awesome Wells said:
Thanks.

What exactly would the purpose of a DWP representative attending be?
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To argue that the Claim should be completely negated (in VP's case). :mad:

This after the DWP had already lost all of VP's medical records pertaining to his DLA claim. And plonked his claim form (at the bottom of a heap of other claims) on a photocopier and left it there for 3 months untouched. I know this because a clerk in that office owned up to wondering where the claim had got to, and later there was an official admission that the records had been lost.

Tbf (and I'm really struggling to be fair) bad backs and ME were widely regarded at the time as diagnoses dished out to malingerers. OTOH VP had been medically retired, and part of the process was being given a thorough medical by a doctor chosen by his employer, not lightly done.
 
Do they appear and say things like "don't worry we can help him on JSA - we promise not to fuck him about and sanction him" (or words to that effect :D :hmm:)
 
existentialist said:
In principle, to argue their case that benefits should be withdrawn/reduced/suspended - it's a legal hearing, and both parties have the right to be represented.

I think it's quite telling that the default case seems to be for the DWP not to attend.
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I suppose they attend if they can spare the people, cost and think it's worthwhile.

Knowing my luck Ian Duncan Shipman himself will appear; probably during an unscheduled eclipse and a puff of sulfur and a cloud of bats.
 
Awesome Wells said:
Do they appear and say things like "don't worry we can help him on JSA - we promise not to fuck him about and sanction him" (or words to that effect :D :hmm:)
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No. The passing-for-human woman from the DWP stated repeatedly that there were "several discrepancies" with the claim. That's all. She didn't even state what the discrepancies were. She also muttered "sorry" to VP as he struggled from the room. :rolleyes:
 
Greebo said:
No. The passing-for-human woman from the DWP stated repeatedly that there were "several discrepancies" with the claim. That's all. She didn't even state what the discrepancies were. She also muttered "sorry" to VP as he struggled from the room. :rolleyes:
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Thanks for the answer.

It's all such a nightmare.

let's hope IDS gets what he deserves from the select comittee tomorrow.
 
Awesome Wells said:
Thanks for the answer.

It's all such a nightmare.

let's hope IDS gets what he deserves from the select comittee tomorrow.
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Given his track record, I'd be amazed if he doesn't find some excuse not to attend.

And if he attends, I confess to some scepticism as to whether they will give him the hauling over the coals he so richly deserves.

And if that happens, I can't help but think, in some dismay, that we'll get a few choice "Well, I believe it to be the case, so it is" rejoinders, and he'll somehow slip through the net.

Some day, surely, he's got to get what's coming to him?
 
I personally don't think he'll attend. But it's nice to think he might and what might happen. Only the other day the Guardian caught him trying to sneak out another Universl Credit daly. Apparently the entire IT systme is going to restart from scratch (not unexpectedly), and it won't even be ready in 2017 for almost a million people. The whole thing is embarassing and disgraceful. He cannot possibly continue, even under this government.
 
Awesome Wells, There were 2 people for my tribunal, a doctor and the chairman (not sure thats what he is called) the court setting is fairly normal, there will also be a court clerk. Were you turned down altogether for ESA? What decision are you asking them to look at? I know you are really not happy about attending, but if you don't you don't get a say in this and I would really encourage you to go, they will search you (standard I gather), you need to have all your evidence in 7 days before the tribunal, however I went over and over the paperwork and wrote myself a one side of paper, bullet pointed aide memoir, so I knew what I was asking.

The timing is pretty shitty, but hopefully you start the new year sorted.

I'm going to pm you,
 
Celt said:
Awesome Wells, There were 2 people for my tribunal, a doctor and the chairman (not sure thats what he is called) the court setting is fairly normal, there will also be a court clerk. Were you turned down altogether for ESA? What decision are you asking them to look at? I know you are really not happy about attending, but if you don't you don't get a say in this and I would really encourage you to go, they will search you (standard I gather), you need to have all your evidence in 7 days before the tribunal, however I went over and over the paperwork and wrote myself a one side of paper, bullet pointed aide memoir, so I knew what I was asking.

The timing is pretty shitty, but hopefully you start the new year sorted.

I'm going to pm you,
Click to expand...

I faield the WCA and the appeal (zero points) and so it's off to tribunal. I know the importance of attending, I just feel extremely anxious about it.

The only piece of evidence yet to be submitted is a suitable GP letter. I really don't know what the problemis; he even agreed to support what the CAB and I had agreed were the appropriate descriptors after going through my case. But the letter he subsequiently wrote is a load of bollocks that seems more a personal diatribe about the system which he still doesn't understand. This is after another doctor (whom I saw because GP was off on holiday) also misread what the CAB requested and, before I could explain it to her, decided to send in a whole bunch of case notes that have nothing to do with what was asked. It's frustrating the hell out of me: all the CAB want is a very simple no frills letter that wouldn't take more than 1 page and could have easily been done by now, in about 10 minutes ffs. But they seem institutionally (or perhaps ideologically) incapable of doing so.

I have a phone appointment with my GP booked for this afternoon. I can't leave it any longer so if this fails then that's it. I don't expect he will a) be happy about it or b) understand despite agreeing specifically to write what was asked. Unfortunately the CAB advisor is adamant that without this I will fail. She says without a doctor specifically backing up those descriptors I don't stand a chance. Maybe she's being a bit over dramatic, or perhaps pragmatic.

/breathes.
 
Quartz said:
Of course he can. To fire him would be a sign of weakness. And to not fire him also demonstrates Cameron's weakness. And he's not going to step down 'voluntarily', is he? So Cameron's stuck.
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Yes. I was unfortunately stuck in a moment of hopeless optimism.

IDS serves a very real purpose for the government. If it really got too much they could ditch him and deflect blame away from them personally. Meanwhile he carries out their most brutal plans almost gleefully. He was on the radio this morning, but all I caught was 'pathfinder this' and 'pathfinder that'.
 
It never rains but it pours! After 7 months i just got a call from Employment Plus (the work programme division of the Salvation Army - praise be!). Some new advisor has been given my case. She sounds...ok but my experience with them has been very negative. She's going to look into mental health support, but I had to inform her that Mind, whome she said she could 'refer' me to don't operate locally. They claim they have health support, but at the same time...don't. I was advised by them to claim ESA in the first place after they bullied me last November claiming there were people they could refer me to as specialists providing i was in receipt of ESA. There wasn't.
 
I'v managed to get the salvation army off my back till early january. Unfoprtunately I dread what will happen if I'm back on JSA because then the gloves come off and the rules, they say, are a lot more strict (so much for the black bxc approach).

My GP however is being a cunt. He said he would write a letter in support of the applicable descriptors but has written some other bullshit. I spoke to him today and he claims he never said that, instead trying to have me believe that he said he'd write whatever he thinks is appropriate, no matter how inappropriate. He seems to think that me telling hime what I need for an appeal is tellin him what to say. In a way it is, in much the sam way that anything you have to write about a particular think is limited. This isn't a creative fiction opportunity. He's lied through his teeth and wants to take the piss I think.

He said he'll take another look at the descriptors despite misplacing the copy that i gave him last time and inexplicably having no record of the one the CAB sent directly. But I'm not holding out much hope. He seems to think that anything benefit related is terrible and that claiming on the sick is unacceptable. I've tried explaining that the process is necessary because it's meant to be the proper pathway to the right kind of support. Being on ESA doesn't preclude me from looking for work, if that's desirable, nor does it mean being in the support group. What it does mean is that I don't have to deal with signing on. He's one of these that seems to htink taking someone's benefits away, ie me no longer being able to claim ESA, is the same as finding work.
 
Awesome Wells said:
I'v managed to get the salvation army off my back till early january. Unfoprtunately I dread what will happen if I'm back on JSA because then the gloves come off and the rules, they say, are a lot more strict (so much for the black bxc approach).

My GP however is being a cunt. He said he would write a letter in support of the applicable descriptors but has written some other bullshit. I spoke to him today and he claims he never said that, instead trying to have me believe that he said he'd write whatever he thinks is appropriate, no matter how inappropriate. He seems to think that me telling hime what I need for an appeal is tellin him what to say. In a way it is, in much the sam way that anything you have to write about a particular think is limited. This isn't a creative fiction opportunity. He's lied through his teeth and wants to take the piss I think.

He said he'll take another look at the descriptors despite misplacing the copy that i gave him last time and inexplicably having no record of the one the CAB sent directly. But I'm not holding out much hope. He seems to think that anything benefit related is terrible and that claiming on the sick is unacceptable. I've tried explaining that the process is necessary because it's meant to be the proper pathway to the right kind of support. Being on ESA doesn't preclude me from looking for work, if that's desirable, nor does it mean being in the support group. What it does mean is that I don't have to deal with signing on. He's one of these that seems to htink taking someone's benefits away, ie me no longer being able to claim ESA, is the same as finding work.
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I didn't have a letter of support from my GP when I went to tribunal for DLA and won.

The solicitor that advised me said that if you have any evidence that goes against you (GP's letter ?) then simply don't submit it. You will be asked lots of questions at the tribunal just make your answers fit the descriptors.

Shouldn't you get points for anxiety anyway? so if you do have a bit of a wobble it should count in your favour.

Good luck.
 
Surprisingly, and dismally, the CAB have submitted that letter from the GP. Unfortunately and perhaps crucially, it has the GP saying that he thinks I can work. The CAB tell me they will counter this with other evidence, particularly of how difficult I find dealing with the jobcentre etc. I was gobsmakced when they thorught hthat was suitable to send. But it's too late now. If I pass it will be a bloody miracle, even though ESA isn't meant solely as an out of work benefit (as i've said before).

I've tried to hard to explain how the system works to the GP and how it isn't simply a black and white 'can/can't work issue'. By that logic most people could do something. Even if it's working from home in an adapated room with a PC. That's the logic IDS uses to push forward the idea that ESA/benefits are stifling people and that work awaits them like air rushing out of a balloon if people would just stop scrounging. He doesn't understand the subtlety. My point all along has been to reach the WRAG, but he only sees in terms of 'signing people off = condeming them to eternal fecklessness and self destruction', not as a means to the right kind of support in the right way.

Or maybe I'm massively wrong.
 
Awesome Wells is there any chance you can change your GP to one who is a bit more sympathetic? Even if they disagree with you, it does not sound like they are explaining it very well or supporting you otherwise, I know benefits aren't really a GP thing but even so.
 
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