Housing Benefit Abolished

[xenon]

I prefer Council Housing - because you can live there with no money.

Social Housing? You mean Council Housing - or housing association?

I prefer Council Housing - because you can live there with no money.

Social housing, provided by a housing association. The rent, at least in this place, significantly less than market rate for the area.

Not sure how someone lives in a council house with no money. Apart from small matters like utilities and food, you don't just automatically get your rent and council tax paid.

 

[Cado]

I did but I was such a vegetable at the time Social Services sorted it all out for me. Council flat, no rent, no C.Tax on disability welfare. Edinburgh though, so different councils may do things differently.

 

[purenarcotic]

I did but I was such a vegetable at the time Social Services sorted it all out for me. Council flat, no rent, no C.Tax on disability welfare. Edinburgh though, so different councils may do things differently.

You would have had rent, but I think what you mean is social services did the housing benefit application for you, so it would have all been sorted.

 

[marty21]

Housing Benefit has been abolished - it was done very quietly with no ceremony.

Housing Benefit was the original and best welfare system this country could have - its simplicity was absolute. Two social groupings (ignoring tax funded community):

2) Working Community: Have money therefore can look after themselves.
1) Non-working community on a simple living allowance of £600 a month.

I guarantee you at least 15 million people were probably on it when they abolished it. They didn't switch it off, they just prevented new people going on it.

Its to be replaced with UC at £77pw, which is quite a drop from the £150pw Housing Benefit. Apparently those still on HB are now NOT on HB but UC with an uplift to make up for the fact they were on HB. Therefore are now on £600 (approx) Universal Credit (UC).

The problem is a great many people relied on going onto HB at some stage of their life - ie when the low paid council workers retire, they expect to be on HB plus their State Pension - now they'll just be on their State Pension.

Anyway - a major welfare ship has just been scrapped - and like everything else the Tories/Civil Service do - they scraped the wrong one, it should have been UC.

TAPs:
1a) Housing Benefit £600pm early 1980s
1b) Job Centre - various legacy benefits late 1980s
1c) Universal Credit - the third iteration of re-inventing the wheel since no-one could quite get the previous two working as they should. £300pm (approx) 2014 ish.

Anyway - looks like cost-of-living crisis will get worse for more people now as more welfare dries up.

I speak to the Housing Benefit department at the council I work for regularly, it hasn't been abolished , it's a legacy benefit , it is still paid on existing claims , and AFAIK, tenants can transfer it to new tenancies provided there is no break in the tenancy dates . New tenants or new claimants have to claim the rent element of UC.

And the rent element of UC will pay full rent provided it's within local authority limits (I think it is linked to old HB rent limits) so I have tenants on £180 a week rents (larger properties ) and UC rent element covers the whole rent. And HB still covers private rents below the 'acceptable' rent levels .

 

[marty21]

The Council offices where it used to be done are shut - and it says on the council website that people need to claim UC



I assume its still a straight £600 (max) per person (I know results may vary between councils) for being a member of the non-working. Assuming your in a Council House you don't pay rent or C.Tax.

Trying to get a handle of things.

Anyway - now people outwith the two below groups:

1. Those in specified / supported accommodation (B&Bs, hotels, accommodation with support included)
2. Pension Age claims

are put onto UC at half the price. ie £300 per month (Single person).

Most of the HB staff at my Council WFH , so rarely attend the office , & staff members have decreased as UC rent element has taken over for new claims .

 

[marty21]

I did but I was such a vegetable at the time Social Services sorted it all out for me. Council flat, no rent, no C.Tax on disability welfare. Edinburgh though, so different councils may do things differently.

Someone would have completed the forms for you to claim HB/CTB.

 

[l'Otters]

It’s true it’s no longer possible to make a new application for housing benefit.
Universal credit is not the same.
It’s a lot more shit than HB.
Plenty of people still on HB because it’s new claims that aren’t possible, existing claims continue, and of those there are plenty.

It is possible to move address and get HB at the new place, if you are already on it, and if you stay within the same borough.

A couple of people won a case recently for how much their disability benefits went down by when they had to move across the country and therefore had to make a new claim under UC. They won a top up to what they previously received. Which is good, but never mind all the other disabled people who have to exist on the UC rates?

Priorities shown on this thread so far are well weird.

 

[marty21]

I dunno, the hundreds of housing benefit claims I process every week are definitely real. But maybe I live in a different reality.
There's loads of errors in the op but I cba correcting them all.

I used to work in HB years ago , from 90-95 , it hasn't changed that much since my day (I still have to understand it for my work )

 

[Cado]

To me its a simple concept in terms of macro-economics:

You can divide society into two social groupings.

2) Working (Paid employment)
1) Non-working (non-paid employment) - therefore put on HB

HB as a source of money was a simple solution to the non-working side of the fence in terms of its original design intention.

I'm assuming HB is word play of "Holy Bible" - therefore Church. People working are masons, people not working are Church.

IMO.

 

[chainsawjob]

And the rent element of UC will pay full rent provided it's within local authority limits

The local authority limit on what they'd pay for a particular spec of accommodation was really low here for a long time, there was literally nothing you could get for a rent that low. Wildly lagging behind real life costs, and hadn't been raised for years. Then last year it seemed to go up quite substantially (a couple of hundred a month). We're on and off UC, depending on my husband's income in any given month. And I wasn't keeping a close eye on benefit things because I wasn't well, and it's all too much to comprehend. Either the LHR (Local Authority Rate, is it called?) went up substantially (surprisingly), or it might have been that when I got on ESA last summer, our individual rate was raised because of my ongoing illness/disability? Now I think about it, the latter is more likely.

 

[chainsawjob]

Benefits are such a headfuck. I used to do welfare advice, in an Unemployed Centre, 20+ years ago, and then it was possible to learn about the different sorts of benefits, and understand them and how they're calculated, and challenge them if an mistake's been made. Nowadays, I find, I haven't a hope in hell of understanding how our UC is calculated (and I'm quite educated and numerate, god knows what chance you stand if you're not, or if English isn't your first language, you really are at their mercy). Or the deductions they take every month to pay back an overpayment I've no hope of understanding why we owe in the first place. My husband earns varying amounts each month, or is sometimes out of work, he's self-employed, formerly as a Ltd company, but now as straightforward self employed sole trader. This added a huge extra level of complexity, I got the impression the benefit people didn't understand it themselves. The best person I spoke to was at Council Tax, although we missed out on CT reduction by having an annual income of about £100 too much

HMRC are much the same, according to OH, they seem to pluck figures out of the air, one week you owe them, the next they owe you, and again, they don't seem to fully understand their own rules themselves.

 

[Cado]

They keep "four-ing" things - which I know to be satanists.

ie UC was originally £100 per person per week.

Then they split it into four components, - whereby you need to apply for all four components to get the full amount back. Its presently 3 components which total up to £77pw.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

I'm assuming HB is word play of "Holy Bible" - therefore Church. People working are masons, people not working are Church.

They keep "four-ing" things - which I know to be satanists.

 

[Cado]

You've no idea how simple things are in my world.

 

[chainsawjob]

They keep "four-ing" things - which I know to be satanists.

ie UC was originally £100 per person per week.

Then they split it into four components, - whereby you need to apply for all four components to get the full amount back. Its presently 3 components which total up to £77pw.

Oh dear Cado

Where are you getting these ideas from? They're really not healthy or true you know.

Stay away from conspiracy websites for a bit eh?

Anyway, nothing about benefits is 'simple' But not in the way you're thinking.

 

[NoXion]

You've no idea how simple things are in my world.

The real world isn't simple.

 

[Pickman's model]

The real world isn't simple.

Cado is

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

I think you are confusing HB with something else Cado

 

[planetgeli]

I used to work in HB years ago , from 90-95 ,

Snap. 89-92. Hammersmith&Fulham, G-M South. Which means if your surname began with a letter between G and M and you lived in Fulham there was every chance it was me who (eventually) paid you your HB.

 

[planetgeli]

I'm assuming HB is word play of "Holy Bible" - therefore Church.

What's your view on pencils?

 

[Pickman's model]

What's your view on pencils?

He's like a broken pencil, pointless

 

[sheothebudworths]

Are you ok Cado ?

Do you need some help with pointing you towards how your benefits might have changed?

They actually have - as marty21 says - with legacy benefits (which have continued until there is a change in circumstances and which are invariably worse when they do) but it's got nothing to do with 'fours' or the church etc, which is the part that is making your post most difficult to understand, to me.

 

[smokedout]

Benefits are such a headfuck. I used to do welfare advice, in an Unemployed Centre, 20+ years ago, and then it was possible to learn about the different sorts of benefits, and understand them and how they're calculated, and challenge them if an mistake's been made. Nowadays, I find, I haven't a hope in hell of understanding how our UC is calculated (and I'm quite educated and numerate, god knows what chance you stand if you're not, or if English isn't your first language, you really are at their mercy). Or the deductions they take every month to pay back an overpayment I've no hope of understanding why we owe in the first place. My husband earns varying amounts each month, or is sometimes out of work, he's self-employed, formerly as a Ltd company, but now as straightforward self employed sole trader. This added a huge extra level of complexity, I got the impression the benefit people didn't understand it themselves. The best person I spoke to was at Council Tax, although we missed out on CT reduction by having an annual income of about £100 too much

HMRC are much the same, according to OH, they seem to pluck figures out of the air, one week you owe them, the next they owe you, and again, they don't seem to fully understand their own rules themselves.

I'm still on Housing Benefit for now and tbh its not much better if you're self employed. No-one seems to know what should happen if your income goes up/drops, when you should report it, or how much of a change means you need to contact them. No-one knows what eligible expenses really are, the rules are different to HMRC but no-one seems to know how, and in 10 years I've never been told the same thing twice. And then after ages of being really blase and saying oh just contact us when you do your accounts if your income has gone up they ambush you out of the blue demanding full sets of accounts, bank statements and all kinds of other evidence within seven days or your claim will be suspended. Still despite all that I'm dreading being switched to Universal Credit and having to deal with the DWP, at least local authority workers are pretty laid back and benign generally and not desperately trying to catch you out, sanction you or end your claim if at all possible.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

To me its a simple concept in terms of macro-economics:

You can divide society into two social groupings.

2) Working (Paid employment)
1) Non-working (non-paid employment) - therefore put on HB

HB as a source of money was a simple solution to the non-working side of the fence in terms of its original design intention.

I'm assuming HB is word play of "Holy Bible" - therefore Church. People working are masons, people not working are Church.

IMO.

 

[josef1878 2.0]

This is just bollocks from start to finish tbh.

Yes it is.

 

[josef1878 2.0]

They keep "four-ing" things - which I know to be satanists.

ie UC was originally £100 per person per week.

Then they split it into four components, - whereby you need to apply for all four components to get the full amount back. Its presently 3 components which total up to £77pw.

When UC was introduced it was £10.70 per day, personal allowance that is. Housing costs are added to that as are payments for children and disabilities. You need to speak to Citizens Advice.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I have never quite got the hang of UC and was always a bit fuzzy on tax credits, but as another one time housing benefits worker (an inner london council, 1991-2), the idea that HB was a set amount, is a steaming pile of piffle.

It was (then) a calculation based on household size and circumstances, household income, and your rent (which obviously varied even then between inner london and somewhere in the grim north )

income could be from DSS (as was then) benefits, wages, or a combination thereof. You would never get more HB than your rent was, and if you were renting somewhere considered unreasonably large / expensive for your household size, you might not get that. It was not an 'all or nothing' so as your income went up your HB would go down, to a point where you didn't qualify any more, but where this point was depended on your household circumstances and your rent.

council tax benefit (may have still been poll tax then?) worked on similar principles - if your income was at income support level, you'd get maximum benefit, if your income was higher, you'd get less on a sliding scale.

I can't imagine that it's a flat rate now, but I'm too long out of the game (even as an amateur trying to assist others) to say so with any authority.

Would suggest anyone who thinks they may be entitled to benefits, or thinks they may be getting the wrong amount (or is pondering a change of job and wondering what effect the change in wages might have on benefits), to have a play with this independent and anonymous benefits calculator

Turn2us Benefits Calculator

Use the Turn2us Benefits Calculator to find out which welfare benefits you may be entitled to.

benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

I'm still on Housing Benefit for now and tbh its not much better if you're self employed. No-one seems to know what should happen if your income goes up/drops, when you should report it, or how much of a change means you need to contact them. No-one knows what eligible expenses really are, the rules are different to HMRC but no-one seems to know how, and in 10 years I've never been told the same thing twice. And then after ages of being really blase and saying oh just contact us when you do your accounts if your income has gone up they ambush you out of the blue demanding full sets of accounts, bank statements and all kinds of other evidence within seven days or your claim will be suspended. Still despite all that I'm dreading being switched to Universal Credit and having to deal with the DWP, at least local authority workers are pretty laid back and benign generally and not desperately trying to catch you out, sanction you or end your claim if at all possible.

Self employed here too, I moved to UC from HB because Covid and I wouldn't have been able to sustain myself otherwise, I am now classed as "gainfully self employed" meaning I don't need to be "looking for work"but also I am subject to the "minimum income floor" and so am entitled to £99.94 a month if I earn nothing to £1277-ish.
Luckily for me things have picked up since this happened last December, but I did miss out on the best past of £900 over the first 3 months.
I am glad I don't have to deal with Lambeth HB though, the people there were always nice and (trying to be) helpful but the system as a whole was not designed for self employed people so seriously messy.

 

[Cado]

ITs a case of seeing through the Governments smoke and mirrors. The easiest way of doing this is FAcebook and Twitter ie asking those who are in that situation.

Should stress I'm in Scotland and take it for granted there will be differences.

IT was created in the early 80s to replace the Regional Councils Social Security systems

Back in the 90s - if you were in a non-working Council House ie Father didn't work, Mother didn't work son/daughter didn't work - everyone got a flat rate of £600pm

In the 2000s they capped the number of HB claims per household to 2

Now they've just scrapped it to new claimants.

 

[marty21]

Snap. 89-92. Hammersmith&Fulham, G-M South. Which means if your surname began with a letter between G and M and you lived in Fulham there was every chance it was me who (eventually) paid you your HB.

I did it at Camden , the HB teams were divided into streets , most of the time I was dealing with streets D-F