Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[Frances Lengel]

Thank you and I have no idea where the "machine love" came from
It was supposed to be "much love"

I assumed machine love was from some sort of music or somesuch you might've been into. Like maybe Kraftwerk or something. Machine Love back at ya though.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Atos no longer has the contract. At present, there is no appointed medical advisor. (According to the latest issue of Private Eye)

 

[Awesome Wells]

ATOS has lost the WCA contract?

Does that mean no tribunal for me? I win by default?

Oh if only

 

[ViolentPanda]

ATOS has lost the WCA contract?

Does that mean no tribunal for me? I win by default?

Oh if only

No.

ATOS has ceded the contract for providing medical advice to adjudication officers with regard to DLA claims. It has nothing to do with the WCA, worse luck.

 

[teqniq]

 

[Awesome Wells]

9 days to go till my tribunal.

I am dreading it.

I hate anxiety.

Fuck you Duncan Smith.

 

[teqniq]

Awesome Wells all the best

 

[Awesome Wells]

Thanks.

 

[Frances Lengel]

9 days to go till my tribunal.

I am dreading it.

I hate anxiety.

Fuck you Duncan Smith.

I've said this before but the tribunal's the one bit of the whole process where you won't get treated like scum - They will consider the evidence presented to them impartially - They're not affiliated to ATOS, all they'll concern themselves with is Social Security law and how it applies to you and your situation. To get to the tribunal stage, you'll have been knocked back every previous step of the way which is bound to be disheartening (I know it was for me), but this is the one bit in which you won't get treated like a prick.

Chin up* mate and all the best. Bring it down. It can be done.

*Chin down for the actual tribunal though - Don't want to look too chipper.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Understood, but I just can't help expect the worst (if I could help it, I wouldn't be claiming! )

I think the only angle I have is to appeal to how ESA is supposed to work. That it shouldn't be solely on the basis of can't work at all. I have a print out of the DWP website saying this. However I can't help thinking that i'll look a massive smug bastard for trying to tell them their job.

However i jsut think that, as with ATOS, mere attendance (and alone) will weigh against me. Plus, if I seem coherent and lucid, which I do, it will do likewise. I've had this attitude from doctors and the like where they tell me that I sound intelligent (i'm saying nothing) and can articulate myself - as if mental health problems = stupidity.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Understood, but I just can't help expect the worst (if I could help it, I wouldn't be claiming! )

I think the only angle I have is to appeal to how ESA is supposed to work. That it shouldn't be solely on the basis of can't work at all. I have a print out of the DWP website saying this. However I can't help thinking that i'll look a massive smug bastard for trying to tell them their job.

However i jsut think that, as with ATOS, mere attendance (and alone) will weigh against me. Plus, if I seem coherent and lucid, which I do, it will do likewise. I've had this attitude from doctors and the like where they tell me that I sound intelligent (i'm saying nothing) and can articulate myself - as if mental health problems = stupidity.

It is fairly well known - and from memory, think it's been declared by a court but ignored by DWP, that the WCA assessment doesn't work in respect of mental health.

If there is anyone at all you can take with you, I really would recommend it - they don't have to speak (not sure they would be allowed to at a tribunal) but firstly being there as some sort of support, and secondly, getting visibly needing support to get there will help your case.

The key really is to take this along the lines of how your condition (and I don't want to ask questions here) affects you and would prevent you from working. While I'm not suggesting you give misleading information, you need to be careful to avoid answers like "well, on very rare good days, I can just about manage to do X even though I feel like shit for days afterwards" - these are likely to be mis-represented as "this person can do X".

And think about how situations you may face at home could pan out in a workplace. If (for example) you have minor accidents at home through inability to concentrate, the risk of harm in a workplace is potentially greater.

If I'm not stating the obvious, it's worth knowing how the points system works for ESA, and (like doing a job application) trying to express your circumstances in a way that fits whichever of their descriptions are relevant. There's a list of the points here (it's on Tameside's website, but the system is national.) Bear in mind that it covers practically every imaginable physical and mental condition out there, so don't be alarmed if a lot of sections aren't relevant to you.

Hope all goes well.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Thanks.

When I sat down with the CAB, at the point of starting the appeal, we went through the descriptors and worked out what was relevant. It's a strange process; even though it wasn't conducted by a doctor it was more of an actual medical than the WCA, which just goes to show it up for what it really is. Also confronting those descriptors did feel - and this may sound very weird - somehwat dishonest. Not wanting to see how your mind really works and what your issues really are, while wanting to believe they aren't an issue. Not least of all because all along we are told to 'chin up' and not make excuses, and just get on.

When you're so close to these problems (as the person involved) it's difficult to see things objectively. For example, I believe that I have a neurodiverse conditoin, possibly aspergers or add. A Work Psychologist report helps with this, though it doesn't diagnose specifically (she couldn't do an actual diagnosis, but did a broader test of some kind). I could bring the letter from the mental health trust saying i'm on the waiting list for a diagnosis, though it doesn't really prove anything. I had hoped i might get seen before the tribunal. Maybe they will allow me ESA until that diagnosis is heard though my GP says he doesn't think I have aspergers (not that he could possibly know).

The big problem with mental health is proof. GP's are reluctant, IME, to acknowledge these issues ebcause they can't verify them. I put this to my GP, but he had no answer. How is someone with underlying problems (stuff that isn't perhaps 'obvious') ever to get stuff verified?

 

[Frances Lengel]

<snip>However i jsut think that, as with ATOS, mere attendance (and alone) will weigh against me. <snip>

It doesn't - People who attend their tribunals in person are statistically more likely to pass. Someone on here might even know the actual figures.

 

[Awesome Wells]

It doesn't - People who attend their tribunals in person are statistically more likely to pass. Someone on here might even know the actual figures.

The CAB quoted 20% as the success rate if you don't attend. I know it's much higher if you attend. Seems a bit unfair really. They have the evidence.

 

[Celt]

9 days to go till my tribunal.

I am dreading it.

I hate anxiety.

Fuck you Duncan Smith.

Thinking of you, reallly hope you have a good result.


Anxiety is a little like hitting your head against a brick wall, great when it stops.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Thanks.

Do tribunals know or even, somehow, take into account the issues between mental health and the WCA?

My GP said he'd look again at the descriptors and the CAB report with a view to a better letter of support (though that was before i'd heard from the CAB they'd sibmitted his last letter), but he hasn't bothered to get back to me. I told him time was a factor and he dismissed me.

I'm hoping the Work Psychologist report will cut some ice.

What exactly is the Work Psychologist department tasked with anyway? Mine is helpful, in a somewhat limited way, though it's better to have her on side than not.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Are you allowed to bring evidences - notes/letters/info - on the day? What i mean is: the tribunal papers seem to suggest that stuff has to be submitted at least 7 days (maybe even 14) ahead. What if I want to bring some extra evidence?

I'm writing some notes, as per the suggestion above, and it's all getting to me a bit. I shall end up printing out an autobiography at this rate. Putting into words your own failings and problems is very uncomfortable.

As this bloody government twists the knife I find myself growing more detached from society.

 

[Greebo]

Are you allowed to bring evidences - notes/letters/info - on the day? What i mean is: the tribunal papers seem to suggest that stuff has to be submitted at least 7 days (maybe even 14) ahead. What if I want to bring some extra evidence?

I'm writing some notes, as per the suggestion above, and it's all getting to me a bit. I shall end up printing out an autobiography at this rate. Putting into words your own failings and problems is very uncomfortable.<snip>

It's worth a try. They're not guaranteed to be accepted, but you can at least use them to help you remember what you need to say. I know writing all that stuff out isn't a cheerful task, OTOH if it helps you to win this tribunal it'll be worth it.

 

[Awesome Wells]

I want to point out to the tribunal that ESA is not just intended for people that can't work at all - despite waht IDS might wish otherwise. It's supposed to be there to help people that need help, in or out of work, the clue should be in the title. I would hope the tribunal can see that, bceause that's what the DWP themselves say.

Of course what they say and what they mean are entirely different things.

 

[Celt]

Are you allowed to bring evidences - notes/letters/info - on the day? What i mean is: the tribunal papers seem to suggest that stuff has to be submitted at least 7 days (maybe even 14) ahead. What if I want to bring some extra evidence?

I'm writing some notes, as per the suggestion above, and it's all getting to me a bit. I shall end up printing out an autobiography at this rate. Putting into words your own failings and problems is very uncomfortable.

As this bloody government twists the knife I find myself growing more detached from society.

I was asked when I got to the court by the clerk if I had any further evidence, I had submitted it the 7 days before, but had a list of reminders for myself. If you haven't submitted evidence then it can't do any harm to take it with you, they can only say no, and they might say yes.

I know I felt much as you describe in the week leading up to the tribunal.

I know its easy for me to say now, but I really felt the tribunal panel were trying to understand me and my illness, they asked quite a lot of questions, but that was to understand how my life was.

 

[Celt]

I've said this before but the tribunal's the one bit of the whole process where you won't get treated like scum - They will consider the evidence presented to them impartially - They're not affiliated to ATOS, all they'll concern themselves with is Social Security law and how it applies to you and your situation. To get to the tribunal stage, you'll have been knocked back every previous step of the way which is bound to be disheartening (I know it was for me), but this is the one bit in which you won't get treated like a prick.

Chin up* mate and all the best. Bring it down. It can be done.

*Chin down for the actual tribunal though - Don't want to look too chipper.

I totally agree

 

[Awesome Wells]

Let's hope that's the case for me. I can't assume it will be. Like anything I could get someone that's understanding or someone else.

I think it could be 50/50 on that basis.

I'm also hoping they aren't backlogged. I know they aren't ATOS, but I nearly had to wait for oever and hour for my WCA (which would not have been pleasant - unlike the poor woman who came in after me). It was by luck the (unpleasant) receptionist came over and told me that they could see me right away. It was also lucky the waiting area was empty. Had it been full, i'd have been very uncomfortable. I'm anticipating a similar setup at the tribunal given how backed up the whole thing seems to be. I don't wait very well.

 

[purenarcotic]

I think you're making a tribunal to be too much like an ATOS experience tbh and I appreciate that is all the experience you have to go on but it really is not set up to catch you out like ATOS is.

I'm not going to say don't worry because that's obviously a daft thing to say but I would try not to compare it to an ATOS appointment because you'll get yourself into a state unnecessarily.

 

[Awesome Wells]

It's worth a try. They're not guaranteed to be accepted, but you can at least use them to help you remember what you need to say. I know writing all that stuff out isn't a cheerful task, OTOH if it helps you to win this tribunal it'll be worth it.

I was thinking more of actual evidence. What I'm writing for myself are just some notes to help me remember my problems, even if they don't 100% tally with the descriptors.

 

[Awesome Wells]

I've just gotten around to reading the final report sent by the CAB summarising everything. it's taken me a couple of weeks to pluck up the courage to do this; it's like looking into a very scary mirror. Like being forced to admit how crap your life is.

It's written in the first person, am I expected to memorise this report as if I'd written it? Surely not.

Also I'm a bit concerned one of the elements has been exaggerated: it says I can't face starting the day regularly. That's not entirely true. If anything I'm a light sleeper prone to insomnia who wakes up, more or less, early. I can't abide lazing in bed and I have never been able to sleep when there's a hint of daylight. It's not a question of facing the day as it is facing certain situations - my dread over this tribunal. Given that I'll be attending on my own this claim is going to look a bit hollow. I think the CAB may have blown what I said a bit too much out of proportion and I don't want to look lik e I'm trying it on. If that makes any sense.

 

[Celt]

It's written in the first person, am I expected to memorise this report as if I'd written it? Surely not.
.

No, its in the evidence, but its worth trying to remember its there.

I would have thought that you are looking for esa to be granted under the exceptional circumstances rule, i.e. that you don't fit neatly in the descriptors.

 

[purenarcotic]

You won't be expected to remember it all, no. You can refer to paperwork as much as you need to and feel free to explain things freely and in your own words. The tribunal want to hear what you feel and what you think; the written evidence helps them to reach a conclusion but it isn't the sole thing they base decision on.

I also wouldn't worry about the way it has been worded: you can explain that what you're trying to get at is that getting through a day can be a real struggle if you know you've got to face something like going to work.

I expect if you were forced to work you would find facing a day ahead difficult and that is the key point. Not being able to face the day or feeling like you can't doesn't automatically mean spending the day in bed either.

 

[toggle]

I've just gotten around to reading the final report sent by the CAB summarising everything. it's taken me a couple of weeks to pluck up the courage to do this; it's like looking into a very scary mirror. Like being forced to admit how crap your life is.

It's written in the first person, am I expected to memorise this report as if I'd written it? Surely not.

Also I'm a bit concerned one of the elements has been exaggerated: it says I can't face starting the day regularly. That's not entirely true. If anything I'm a light sleeper prone to insomnia who wakes up, more or less, early. I can't abide lazing in bed and I have never been able to sleep when there's a hint of daylight. It's not a question of facing the day as it is facing certain situations - my dread over this tribunal. Given that I'll be attending on my own this claim is going to look a bit hollow. I think the CAB may have blown what I said a bit too much out of proportion and I don't want to look lik e I'm trying it on. If that makes any sense.

easier said than done, i know, but please try to relax a little. the tribunal are not out to proove you wrong.

but the admitting it is all crap, that's a hard thing in and of itself to see it all written down. to not be able to hide from any of it.

 

[Awesome Wells]

You won't be expected to remember it all, no. You can refer to paperwork as much as you need to and feel free to explain things freely and in your own words.

That's what i've been trying to write (as opposed to the CAB report).

I hope I can post on monday that all this worry and woe was for naught

 

[purenarcotic]

Don't feel rushed either, the tribunal will understand you're nervous and they will give you space.