equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Don't know offhand, but esteemed colleague Mr ViolentPanda might know. Bet there's an act making it's way quietly through parliament changing things as we speak though.
Cynical, moi?
Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support
- Thread starter Zabo
- Start date
Cynical, moi?
Are there any? I suppose there must - o should be.
I suspect they need only have a 'healthcare professional' undertake the test. We all know that doesn't specifically mean doctor trained in the relevant fields as per the patient.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
That's just it. ATOS aren't even assessing people any more unless they're terminally ill. They've stepped aside from doing the assessments except for the terminally ill. The leaked internal memo says that, in the absence of an ATOS assessment they're to rely on GP reports, consultant's reports etc and, if need be, to simply Google a claimant's listed medical problems and/or disabilities and decide their claim on that basis.
Claimants who can't get supporting evidence could well find their claim decided by the office junior with a search engine and no medical knowledge other than what Google tells them.
To call the WCA a medical test of any kind is misleading. It isn't remotely medical in any way shape or form.
I really don't get why the PCS don't strike over issues like this.
I really don't get why the PCS don't strike over issues like this.
Fear, pure and simple. Not fear of being sacked immediately, but fear of losing any chance of promotion, and fear of being first on the list when it comes to the next round of redundancies and restructuring.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
If you're referring to the WCA, the standard of assessment/who the assessment will be conducted by seems to vary for different conditions, although we know that, for example, some neuro conditions have been revised (downward) so that a doctor is no longer required to assess a person with that condition, and a rehabilitation nurse or OT can assess that person instead.
A cynic might say that these revisions are strangely-timed, and that they seem to originate at around the point the BMA took against the WCA, and doctors started withdrawing their service from ATOS (part of the thing about piecework and being effectively self-employed is that there's no pesky 3 month or even 1 month notice period!). Not me though, I'm no cynic!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
This, absolutely. PCS members in DWP depts have already lost tens of thousands of members to redundancy in the last 3 and a half years, with more to come. With the employment situation as it is (despite Gideon's boasts otherwise), it's a case of "batten down the hatches" rather than "let's strike".
Fair point.
Unfortunately if we can't all get together across the board in opposition to this government, I don't think we're going to stop them short of rioting.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
And that management by fear approach is core to the Thatcherite Tory dogma that this lot go in for, so it's no accident: "keep unemployment high and the peons scared"
Sent evidence special delivery to the Tribunal service so that they have it 7 days before my tribunal which is the 29th, Black Friday, the two bear no relation to each other I know, but it amuses me.
Finished the council tax benefit form and will deliver it to them tomorrow, so think I have done everything I can do at the moment.
Finished the council tax benefit form and will deliver it to them tomorrow, so think I have done everything I can do at the moment.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Which is why they call them assessments, done by healthcare professionals (usually not doctors except in specific cases, except they're moving the goalposts on that one as well).
They don't even assess. You turn up, tell them some stuff and most of it is ignored either through lack of evidence or because they don't believe you: "mental health problems? you seem fine to me". It's that kind of nonsense. We all know this of course, but it's just incredible how useless it is. Even when conducted by a perfectly polite individual, as mine was (unlike some of the horror stories reported). It was no more a medical or an asessment than afternoon tea.
monsterbunny
Well-Known Member
I have a range of health complaints; one is now an end-stage condition (two failed treatments) and I'm awaiting inclusion on a suitable clinical drugs trial which, if successful, might qualify me for a transplant procedure.
For two years I have been in the 'support group' for contributory ESA. I am not entitled to any non-contributory benefits. Now I've received the dreaded ESA50 (limited capability for work questionnaire).
Having read this thread and picked up some useful pointers I still recognise that the outcome is likely to be unfavourable. Unsurprisingly I'm not looking forward to a fight with Atos and the DWP, so can anyone offer me any advice before I complete this form?
For two years I have been in the 'support group' for contributory ESA. I am not entitled to any non-contributory benefits. Now I've received the dreaded ESA50 (limited capability for work questionnaire).
Having read this thread and picked up some useful pointers I still recognise that the outcome is likely to be unfavourable. Unsurprisingly I'm not looking forward to a fight with Atos and the DWP, so can anyone offer me any advice before I complete this form?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
My advice is "get professional help to fill the forms in".
If that isn't possible, PM me an e-mail adress of yours, so that I can send you .pdfs of the Benefits & Work guides to filling in the ESA50. They're the single best and most comprehensive guide I've found on how to frame your answers.
19sixtysix
Life as viewed from a Gay Gorbals Garret
Really worried about my friend who got a letter on Monday to come in today for a PIP interview. He's deaf and only has a little hearing in one ear. Enough to hear a loud bang to make him jump. He also has slight learning difficulties that are not obvious on first meeting. He's quite canny otherwise so won't be lip reading or saying much that isn't incomprehensible but still he hardly has money enough to live on as it is and zero job prospects. What do I do to help him appeal if it all goes tits up? I'm going round to see him next week. I've been thinking he might be missing some benefits already as his other deaf friends seem much better off than him. I can afford to take him shopping for food every so often but I'm worried he'll end up homeless :-(
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
If he's in receipt of Housing Benefit (and Council Tax Benefit) that shouldn't be a problem, even if he gets bumped off of DLA/PIP. DLA isn't taken into account with regard to HB and CTB calculations, as it's a supplement to offset the extra costs of disability. The hard and fast rule with anything like this, though, is to seek professional representation (i.e. CAB or local Law Centre) as soon as possible if at all possible.
Good strategy for him to emphasise his communication difficulties, by the way.
If his PIP claim is knocked back, there are several things you need to do immediately.
1) Request that the decision be reviewed and an appeal set in motion.
2) Seek professional representation (as above).
3 Request from the DWP a full copy of the claimant's case file pertaining to the PIP decision. If you need to do this, you need a "letter of authority" from your friend, with his signature on it, stating that you're his representative in this matter (A CAB or Law Centre would request he sign one too).
As for your friend's entitlements, usually the best way to establish these is (again) the CAB or other professional advocacy organisations (I'm aware that what used to be the RNID sucks walrus cock).
The letter I got explaining the reasons for decision (not entitld to ESA) pretty much said (using a few more words though) - He looked alright to me. Plus some other bullshit using the fact I'd filled in the form myself against me (so there's a tip - If possible, get someone else to fill in your form. Even if you're ok with form-filling-in. Write it all down on a bit of paper, then get whoever's doing it to just copy it out). And then some other bullshit about the person with me offering no supporting evidence - She was only there to hold my hand, she wasn't asked to provide supporting evidence, nor was she qualified.
I might as well not have been at the medical - The reasons the healthcare professional gave for knocking me back weren't even relevent to what he'd asked me about & the answers I gave.
Heading towards Tribunal Friday, will have someone with me, but basically speaking for myself. There are some things I need to check up on and if anyone here can help me find the relevant facts I'd appreciate it.
I got ESA at WRAG, I am appealing to be placed in support group, I got 15 points 9 from walking and mobilising, 6 from sitting and moving, these were awarded after I earned 0 points from the medical, awarded by a telephone call from the DWP to me, asking for further info about these.
Do I need to have 15 points in one descriptor to make support group, the information my accompanying person has gleaned, it doesn't matter if you make 40 points from otheer descriptors, to make support group one descriptor must give 15 points, Is this so.
ViolentPanda, Greebo, equationgirl anyone? I have research I need to do on other points and will return later, thanks anyone who can advise
I got ESA at WRAG, I am appealing to be placed in support group, I got 15 points 9 from walking and mobilising, 6 from sitting and moving, these were awarded after I earned 0 points from the medical, awarded by a telephone call from the DWP to me, asking for further info about these.
Do I need to have 15 points in one descriptor to make support group, the information my accompanying person has gleaned, it doesn't matter if you make 40 points from otheer descriptors, to make support group one descriptor must give 15 points, Is this so.
ViolentPanda, Greebo, equationgirl anyone? I have research I need to do on other points and will return later, thanks anyone who can advise
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Couple of things:
a) IIRC you have some problems with stress/anxiety/depression that you were given no consideration for with regard to the decision made - follow this up.
b) Yes, automatic entry into the support group is predicated on scoring a 15 for any of the physical health or mental health assessment criteria, but an appeal should look at whether the original assessment and/or the review made the right decisions in the first place, based on submitted evidence (hence my point above).
I have submitted evidence from:-
i. the pain clinic practitioner, re the damaged sciatic nerve, its impact on my life and the fact it is not going to get better.
2. CPN, regarding my mental health, the impact of my physical condition on my mental health, and the stress the benefits process has caused and expected treatment.
3.. Director of Services at MIND local association,
4. GP's letter, confirming medical facts, treatment and prognosis
5. Statement from a friend outlining how life is for me.
OK, I understand the need to talk about my mental health, thanks.
I don't think that I can get 15 points on any ! of the descriptors in themselves, so can they still give me support group for getting say 6 points each on three of the physical descriptors and 6 points on two of the mental health descriptors?
I met with the director of services and the business/personel manager from the local MIND, I became a trustee for them a year ago, to discuss what needed to be said at tribunal, they told me how my health problems both physical and mental impacted on my work as a Trustee, and the difficulties they found working with me,it wasn't accusatory they were telling me to help me focus on what I needed to say, but I found it quite difficult to hear, its the one thing I thought I was succeeding at. They describe my lack of being able to stick to a train of thought, problems I have with communicating,
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Searching the benefits and work forum, I don't think it has to be 15 points from one descriptor,
this to someone looking to move from WRAG to support group.
Can't post on that at the moment, I think I should go to bed and try and make sense of it tomorrow, when hopefully pain will be less and brain might work better.
this to someone looking to move from WRAG to support group.
Can't post on that at the moment, I think I should go to bed and try and make sense of it tomorrow, when hopefully pain will be less and brain might work better.
captainmission
Well-Known Member
You can find the discriptors for the support group here - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2013/9780111531877/schedule/3
You need to meet at least one of those discriptors to go in the support group. Some of these as the same as having 15 points in the WRAG, however there are additional discriptors relating to eat and drinking.
What this mean is that if you that you go to tribunal after being place in the WRAG the tribunal will look at the award in its entirety, and could remove your entilement to ESA all together if it considers you to havescore less than 15 points.
Can i ask do you get DLA at higher rate mobility? have you applied?
Yes I have mobility at High Rate.
When you say "meet the dscriptor" do you mean have 15 points in one descriptor?
I was unable to get onto the benefits and work forum today, my payment went awry, and I only got the message about that late this evening, Tribunal is tomorrow afternoon so its to late now, going to have to trust the universe.
19sixtysix
Life as viewed from a Gay Gorbals Garret
Thanks. He may at time not understand stuff but he took himself off to his local authority case worker who's arranged an interpreter for sign language and the interview is now at a later date. I've been trying to get him to sort out his freedom pass so he may have a medical statement as well if they are required later. His paperwork is a bit of a mess so not sure if he'll have much other evidence to take with him from consultants etc. I do wonder if this has all worked against him in the past as most of his deaf friend seem better off than he is.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
captainmission
Well-Known Member
Meeting the descriptor means whether any of the points in the link I posted apply to you. Some of them, like the mobility descriptor, are the same as scoring fifteen points for mobility in limited capability for work assessment. It doesn't matter if atos/dwp have previously awarded only 9 points; the tribunal are going to look at your evidence and decide whether any of those critrea apply to you.
The fact that you have higher rate mobility DLA may be relevant to your case. The most common reason for awarding higher rate mobility is because a person is considered virtually unable to walk. The DWP will consider some one unable to walk 50m as virtually unable to walk. The ESA desriptor is slightly different - it's mobilise, not walk. So they would also look at whether it'd be reasonable for a person to use a manual wheel chair to cover that distance. However if you where awarded higher rate mobility on the basis of being virtually unable to walk that does mean at some point in the past the dwp considered you to be unable to walk 50m. That won't be a decisive factor on a tribunal, they may consider the dwp was mistaken in its dla assessment or a more recent assessment was more accurate. But it can be some thing to point out.
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