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Are we really going to sit by while they destroy the NHS?

Totally. Couldn’t go back to just two days off a week. Much prefer a brutal 48 hours in four days and then 4 off. Makes more sense. When i was an office monkey I’d just get in at 6pm after the commute and get stoned and play video games mostly (nothing wrong with that obviously). With 4 days off you can actually do stuff and go places. We only get 148 hours in the week right?
168
 
I’m being paid £50 an hour right now. I’m in the bath. Non residential 24hr on call. Balances out tho- spent Christmas night all night on the wards 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’ve heard of some Med reg shifts going for £100s/hr for hard to fill shifts or craft specialties. If you gave up the day job and just took locums you’d be really rich and have a fantastic work-life balance.
I did 6 weeks as a locum stroke consultant for £120/hr before I took a permanent job.
 
I wonder how our health system compares on a cost per capita, to the German, French or US systems?

I bet we currently spend a lot less.
 
In the olden days we used to pay bursaries to trainee nurses and provide them with subsidised accommodation. Now we expect them to get £££thousands into debt for their nursing degree even before they earn a penny.

But it's more than just woeful underfunding, it's bloodsucking too. Agencies are one of the vampires. NHS spent £3 billion last year on agency staff. And agency bosses have political clout of course.
See Morning Star article on Lord Ashcroft's firm MEDACS, cited earlier by teqniq

From Nursing Times, November 2022:
14 NOVEMBER, 2022 BY MEGAN FORD

NHS trusts across England are increasingly relying on expensive agency staff to fill workforce gaps, with one organisation shelling out as much as £2,500 for a single agency nurse shift.
Analysis by the Labour Party revealed the NHS paid more than £3bn to agencies to provide nurses and doctors at short notice during 2021-22.
This was a 20% increase on the year before, Labour said, when health services paid out £2.4bn.
“Temporary staff have vital roles in providing safe care but they should not be continually used to offset a shortfall in permanent staff"
Further data showed trusts in England also spent £6bn on bank staff in 2021-22.

And from way back in 2015 - a hit job by the Torygraph on how agencies are making a killing from the inability of the NHS to recruit, train and retain staff

How nursing agencies making billions are bleeding the NHS dry

A Telegraph investigation reveals the boom underway at agencies supplying doctors and nurses to the NHS amid a rapidly deepening budget deficit in the service
paywall busted: archived

The figures cited in the article would be massively higher now, but even back then:
The Telegraph's investigation shows how revenue at one of the NHS’s largest outsourced recruitment firms, Independent Clinical Services (ICS), increased by 60 per cent in just two years, to £314 million.
Meanwhile, spending on agency staff by NHS foundation trusts – two-thirds of hospitals – rose by 64 per cent over a two-year period, pushing the health service into debt.
Figures obtained by The Telegraph show that Barts Health NHS Trust in London spent most heavily on agency staff, with an £81 million bill in 2014-15.
It was followed by King’s College Hospital foundation trust and Royal Free London NHS trust, which each spent more than £60 million.
The trusts blame their reliance on temporary staff on a lack of qualified nurses. Many have tried to employ more nurses in the wake of the Mid Staffs scandal, but struggled to find permanent workers, causing the agency bill to spiral.

Critics say the problem has been caused by underinvestment in training, a lack of any effective cap on the rates that agencies charge and a failure to recruit enough staff.
In true tabloid fashion the article mentions the lavish lifestyles of some of the agency bosses, illustrated with pictures of houses valued at what must have seemed back then extraordinary prices. It doesn't talk about their political influence.
 
Saw it earlier, glad to see some recognition of doctors being complicit in nhs privatisation, but don’t you think that the parade of weirdos on NTAMS is a big clue as to why it has been so easy for the Labour right (and the right as a whole) to advance their agendas?
Worth a watch:

 
It’s the same crowd that (at least some) posters on here balk at on the ‘no to nato’ event thread.

You may well be mad and you may not be going to take it any more, but you ain’t going to be beat psychiatry by allying with Scientology, nor are you going to beat the remorseless march of neo-liberalism by allying with antisemitic, despot defending cranks. You’re just doing the enemy’s work for them.
 
Saw it earlier, glad to see some recognition of doctors being complicit in nhs privatisation, but don’t you think that the parade of weirdos on NTAMS is a big clue as to why it has been so easy for the Labour right (and the right as a whole) to advance their agendas?
Never watched a piece by them before and am subsequently unfamiliar with the 'parade of weirdos' you refer to. I see from your following post that you allude to antisemitism and Scientology. Unsavoury.
 
Cathy Newman conducted an interview with a Professor of Medicine about the poly-crisis affecting the NHS.At her invitation he explained that we have for some time now had a system with stark regional variations which was also rightly said to be a two-tier system with people unable to pay for private care being the ones now exposed to unprecedented waiting times both in A-E following strokes and heart attacks and when in need of an operation of one kind or another."Finally" she then said "have you or your family ever had recourse to private health-care".Err well yes they had gone private for scans here and there when waiting times seemed too long."
He seemed quite taken aback to be asked this and the entire point of the interview seemed to have been negated-extraordinary question to have asked when she must have known what the answer was likely to be.:confused:
 
Dropping book titles into threads is no substitute for actual argument
 
Dropping book titles into threads is no substitute for actual argument

I know what you mean but he is right. A lot of what Javid is saying is laying the ground for a new approach that directly goes against the current consensual view.

EG

“extending the contributory principle”

“too often the appreciation for the NHS has become a religious fervour and a barrier to reform”.
 
I know what you mean but he is right. A lot of what Javid is saying is laying the ground for a new approach that directly goes against the current consensual view.

EG

“extending the contributory principle”

“too often the appreciation for the NHS has become a religious fervour and a barrier to reform”.
Manufacturing consent is surely more than one man proposing a policy in an abortive tory leadership campaign and in an article in the Times some months later. As far as a brief search shows, he's not working for or with a think-tank on this and he won't be an mp after the next election. My money would be on this being more of a campaign for his future career, probably as some sort of consultant or lobbyist for a US healthcare company
 
When these sociopaths announce that their spell in politics is over and they're going to spend more time with their off-shore tax havens, it's not uncommon for them to work their notice doing the heavy lifting of those Overton windows.
 
I notice from his own tweet that he is calling for 'cross-party consensus'. To me this would seem to indicate that he knows the vermin have no mandate to push changes that he is advocating though on their own even with their substantial majority they are fearful of widespread opposition. I just hope the likes of Streeting is not allowed to push for the changes he has indicated he wants to see should Labour win a majority at the next election.

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When these sociopaths announce that their spell in politics is over and they're going to spend more time with their off-shore tax havens, it's not uncommon for them to work their notice doing the heavy lifting of those Overton windows.
No indeed. But the shifting of the ow can't be done by one tory no matter how energetic all on his todd as is the case atm. If this is taken up by the lp - which under shammer can't be ruled out - then we'll see. But atm afaic this is just javid flying his lonely kite. He'll never see this moved forward under his authority. And I doubt other people will adopt it, as it would hinder rather than help the a&e crisis.
 
I notice from his own tweet that he is calling for 'cross-party consensus'. To me this would seem to indicate that he knows the vermin have no mandate to push changes that he is advocating though on their own even with their substantial majority they are fearful of widespread opposition. I just hope the likes of Streeting is not allowed to push for the changes he has indicated he wants to see should Labour win a majority at the next election.

View attachment 360224
Cross party consensus still not really manufacturing consent as manufactured consent manifests in the population not parliament
 
Feels like we're past the point where it'll be possible to push this through now we've got strikes building momentum

I would say ime/anecdotally there's a fair amount of support among NHS staff for something like that charging system. Be interested to see any more fact based info, but support for it might even be higher than in the general public given how difficult working in the NHS is currently (people will clutch at straws for any solutions).
 
Cross party consensus still not really manufacturing consent as manufactured consent manifests in the population not parliament
Yep, but what 'lone wolves' like the now 'liberated' Javid can do is raise the ideological direction up the news agenda. Simply having their vile ideas as "media talking points" acts to legitimise, normalise and ultimately manufacture some degree of consent.
 
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