Are we really going to sit by while they destroy the NHS?

[quimcunx]

I've half a mind to print some off and stick them to Day Lewis windows.

I mean I won't. I don't have a printer for starters.

 

[magneze]

See. People aren't lazy at all. Actively avoiding Day Lewis.

 

[8ball]

Yes, a director.

Due to not being able to read the HSJ article I was lucky to even find that scrap of info. But now the fucking Telegraph have picked up on this story so more can be read via an archive site:

Free NHS makes public too lazy too look after themselves, says pharma…

archived 3 Apr 2023 15:27:15 UTC

archive.ph

So people are both accepting a lower level of care because it's free at the point of delivery, but also happy to get ill because they know they will be looked after.

 

[sparkybird]

This is absolutely bollox. Mexico for example doesn't have free at point of delivery heath care but ranks 17th highest country for diabetes. UK is 132nd. By Mr Day Lewis' reckoning UK should be way ahead, no?

 

[SpookyFrank]

People too lazy to not get cancer. Sorry state of affairs.

I wish laziness was the problem. The actual problem is you can't see a doctor unless you phone them up every four seconds between 8am and 8:30 and I start work at 7:45.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've half a mind to print some off and stick them to Day Lewis windows.

I mean I won't. I don't have a printer for starters.

Other people do tho

 

[Humberto]

This is absolutely bollox. Mexico for example doesn't have free at point of delivery heath care but ranks 17th highest country for diabetes. UK is 132nd. By Mr Day Lewis' reckoning UK should be way ahead, no?

In 2020, nearly 13 of every 100 U.S. adults aged 18 years or older (12.5%) currently* smoked cigarettes.

Current Cigarette Smoking Among Adults in the United States

See data and statistical information for adult cigarette smoking in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

In 2021, the proportion of current smokers in the UK was 13.3%
Yep, time to slash the state and cut their benefits the wastrels.

 

[Humberto]

nm

 

[Humberto]

Rough Google:

USA 40% adult obsesity

UK 26% adult obesity

 

[teqniq]

This is pretty nail on the head:

An imploding health service underpins junior doctors’ radicalisation

With real pay down 26% since 2008 and demoralised workplaces, medics are striking not out of militancy but from deep-rooted frustration

www.theguardian.com

 

[Karl Masks]

I cannot support these strikes. I wish I would. They have every justification. The NHS and its staff have been abused and exploited for years. What should be a mark of national shame and a permanent stain on this country's political system is just business as usual. But as someone currently using the NHS (or trying to) I haven't got the strength and I can't support it given the deleterious effect on patient care.

I understand the arguments. I agree with them all. Something must be done. But the TUC, who seem to be the only people who could, have failed to orgianise. There should have been solidarity and striking in sympathy. But struggle has been hopelessly dividied.

The NHS is gone and the real tragedy of it is there is no replacement. We all know the Tories want for-profit provision but they know they can't offer that. Even if they could it wouldn't be in place over night. years of turning the NHS into a political football has created this vaccuum wherein care is hard to come by and staff are leaving in droves or burned out. It's a complete disaster and there seems no end to this. Even training up new staff won't solve the problem in a single parliament which means nothing will be done.

If I could afford or find (it doesn't exist here) private healthcare I would use it. I don't like saying any of this, I'm not even sure other than venting why I'm doing so because it achieves nothing. I've never felt so hopeless about Britain as I do right now. The Tories have to go, there's just no option.

 

[Pickman's model]

I cannot support these strikes. I wish I would. They have every justification. The NHS and its staff have been abused and exploited for years. What should be a mark of national shame and a permanent stain on this country's political system is just business as usual. But as someone currently using the NHS (or trying to) I haven't got the strength and I can't support it given the deleterious effect on patient care.

I understand the arguments. I agree with them all. Something must be done. But the TUC, who seem to be the only people who could, have failed to orgianise. There should have been solidarity and striking in sympathy. But struggle has been hopelessly dividied.

The NHS is gone and the real tragedy of it is there is no replacement. We all know the Tories want for-profit provision but they know they can't offer that. Even if they could it wouldn't be in place over night. years of turning the NHS into a political football has created this vaccuum wherein care is hard to come by and staff are leaving in droves or burned out. It's a complete disaster and there seems no end to this. Even training up new staff won't solve the problem in a single parliament which means nothing will be done.

If I could afford or find (it doesn't exist here) private healthcare I would use it. I don't like saying any of this, I'm not even sure other than venting why I'm doing so because it achieves nothing. I've never felt so hopeless about Britain as I do right now. The Tories have to go, there's just no option.

Not persuaded whining a substitute for argument and analysis

 

[LDC]

I cannot support these strikes. I wish I would. They have every justification. The NHS and its staff have been abused and exploited for years. What should be a mark of national shame and a permanent stain on this country's political system is just business as usual. But as someone currently using the NHS (or trying to) I haven't got the strength and I can't support it given the deleterious effect on patient care.

I understand the arguments. I agree with them all. Something must be done. But the TUC, who seem to be the only people who could, have failed to orgianise. There should have been solidarity and striking in sympathy. But struggle has been hopelessly dividied.

The NHS is gone and the real tragedy of it is there is no replacement. We all know the Tories want for-profit provision but they know they can't offer that. Even if they could it wouldn't be in place over night. years of turning the NHS into a political football has created this vaccuum wherein care is hard to come by and staff are leaving in droves or burned out. It's a complete disaster and there seems no end to this. Even training up new staff won't solve the problem in a single parliament which means nothing will be done.

If I could afford or find (it doesn't exist here) private healthcare I would use it. I don't like saying any of this, I'm not even sure other than venting why I'm doing so because it achieves nothing. I've never felt so hopeless about Britain as I do right now. The Tories have to go, there's just no option.

The NHS hasn't gone, what over dramatic bollocks.

And you're doing a great job of mixing up your own feelings and personal issues with politics and political positions.

 

[weltweit]

I recently had tests in ENT and Lung Function, I have no complaints, all was done reasonably quickly and competently. For those parts of the NHS, it felt far from broken.

 

[Karl Masks]

The NHS hasn't gone, what over dramatic bollocks.

And you're doing a great job of mixing up your own feelings and personal issues with politics and political positions..

Not remotely over dramatic. For many of us healthcare as it was is either non existent or inaccessible.

In the end it's always personal issues and feeligs. If it wasn't it wouldn't matter. But these aren't just my personal feelings, they are those of everyone that needs healthcare right now.

I gave a practical response as well: the TUC needs to act. Solidarity and sympathetic striking. A general strike. Leaving it to critical care workers is inexcusable. My local hospital is reporting that they are not just affected by the strike, they are critically exposed. That has never happened before. They were asking the doctors not to strike. I think the doctors deserve every penny they are asking for and more. I don't blame them or seek to chastise them for the shit hand they've been dealt, but I'm afraid I cannot condone the consequences. There has to be another way.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not remotely over dramatic. For many of us healthcare as it was is either non existent or inaccessible.

In the end it's always personal issues and feeligs. If it wasn't it wouldn't matter. But these aren't just my personal feelings, they are those of everyone that needs healthcare right now.

I gave a practical response as well: the TUC needs to act. Solidarity and sympathetic striking. A general strike. Leaving it to critical care workers is inexcusable. My local hospital is reporting that they are not just affected by the strike, they are critically exposed. That has never happened before. They were asking the doctors not to strike. I think the doctors deserve every penny they are asking for and more. I don't blame them or seek to chastise them for the shit hand they've been dealt, but I'm afraid I cannot condone the consequences. There has to be another way.

If you're going to lie it's better to do it where your statements don't sit side by side in written form. You didn't give the practical response you claim, you said the tuc had failed

 

[Karl Masks]

I recently had tests in ENT and Lung Function, I have no complaints, all was done reasonably quickly and competently. For those parts of the NHS, it felt far from broken.

For me to see a doctor it will cost £4 in bus fare.
To get and compelte a speciment sample will cost twice that.

The local medical practice is run by people who seemt o care more about money than people. They shut down the local surgery but have expanded elsewhere to create a vast regional service. One that included providing private fit for work tests to companies that wanted to hire their 'work doctor' service.

I'm glade you got care. You should. Whether that's the norm for enough of us is the crucial point

 

[weltweit]

I had to pay transport costs (car) and parking at the hospital end.

 

[Pickman's model]

I recently had tests in ENT and Lung Function, I have no complaints, all was done reasonably quickly and competently. For those parts of the NHS, it felt far from broken.

Yeh I went to the Dr because of a persistent cough, blood tests and chest x-ray done really quickly and results came back quickly. Very happy with the service I received

 

[kalidarkone]

Despite the NHS being very broken....I looked after a patient yesterday (bare in mind junior docs were striking) for a exploratory craniotomy (brain tumor) they got him in for surgery 10 days from diagnosis.

There is definitely a problem in Primary care and getting diagnosis.

 

[Karl Masks]

I had to pay transport costs (car) and parking at the hospital end.

which shouldn't have to happen

 

[Pickman's model]

For me to see a doctor it will cost £4 in bus fare.
To get and compelte a speciment sample will cost twice that.

The local medical practice is run by people who seemt o care more about money than people. They shut down the local surgery but have expanded elsewhere to create a vast regional service. One that included providing private fit for work tests to companies that wanted to hire their 'work doctor' service.

I'm glade you got care. You should. Whether that's the norm for enough of us is the crucial point

For me to see a doctor means £3.50 in bus fate there and back but unlike you I don't blame my doctor for the need to take a bus

 

[Pickman's model]

which shouldn't have to happen

There is an easy solution, reduce your health to the stage where you're offered patient transport

 

[LDC]

For me to see a doctor it will cost £4 in bus fare.

How is that either a new problem, or anything to do with the NHS?

Nobody is denying there aren't problems in the NHS at a number of levels, but to say it's gone is just not true and risks people giving up any inclination to fight for it.

 

[weltweit]

which shouldn't have to happen

Well you have to get there somehow, or do you mean the parking cost?

 

[Pickman's model]

How is that either a new problem, or anything to do with the NHS?

Nobody is denying there aren't problems in thre NHS at a number of levels, but to say it's gone is just not true and risks people giving up any inclination to fight for it.

Km is full of shit and hyperbollocks

 

[LDC]

I gave a practical response as well: the TUC needs to act. Solidarity and sympathetic striking. A general strike. Leaving it to critical care workers is inexcusable. My local hospital is reporting that they are not just affected by the strike, they are critically exposed. That has never happened before. They were asking the doctors not to strike. I think the doctors deserve every penny they are asking for and more. I don't blame them or seek to chastise them for the shit hand they've been dealt, but I'm afraid I cannot condone the consequences. There has to be another way.

But you've said you can't support the strikes? (Not that support or not really means much tbh if it's just thinking, "I do/don't support this".) But also you're suggesting bigger and wider strikes that will likely have more of an impact on patient care short term?

 

[Karl Masks]

Well you have to get there somehow, or do you mean the parking cost?

people who can't afford to get to the healthcare can't get healthcare. No one should have to pay

 

[Karl Masks]

But you've said you can't support the strikes? (Not that support or not really means much tbh if it's just thinking, "I do/don't support this".) But also you're suggesting bigger and wider strikes that will likely have more of an impact on patient care short term?

i don't support the critical workers themselves striking. I think others should strike in their place

 

[Pickman's model]

But you've said you can't support the strikes? (Not that support or not really means much tbh if it's just thinking, "I do/don't support this".) But also you're suggesting bigger and wider strikes that will likely have more of an impact on patient care short term?

I would say it's an example of cognitive dissonance but I'm not persuaded there's much cognition in Karl masks