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Are we really going to sit by while they destroy the NHS?

Karl Masks said:
people who can't afford to get to the healthcare can't get healthcare. No one should have to pay
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I mean I agree public transport should be free as well. But moaning about your £4 bus fare in the same breath as the NHS as if they're in some way connected is kind of bollocks.
 
LDC said:
I mean I agree public transport should be free as well. But moaning about your £4 bus fare in the same breath as the NHS as if they're in some way connected is kind of bollocks.
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This is a completely unserious comment. "Moaning". Grow up a bit
 
There's not going to be any general strikes. UK laws don't allow it, and our law-abiding unions would never go along with it, as a consequence. So the only options in terms of industrial action are an unofficial general strike, which will also never happen, or individual unions taking action as best they can.
 
Karl Masks said:
For me to see a doctor it will cost £4 in bus fare.
To get and compelte a speciment sample will cost twice that.

The local medical practice is run by people who seemt o care more about money than people. They shut down the local surgery but have expanded elsewhere to create a vast regional service. One that included providing private fit for work tests to companies that wanted to hire their 'work doctor' service.

I'm glade you got care. You should. Whether that's the norm for enough of us is the crucial point
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Because there are not enough full time GPS. Because there are not enough doctors or nurses. The compromise is that YOU pay bus fare and wait longer for treatment.

Even if we didn't strike there would be many preventable deaths as a consequence of there not being enough staff ANYWHERE within the NHS...in fact within health and Social care full stop.

Also the strikes are not just about pay but the reform of the NHS including the restoration of bursarys and waive of tuition fees and planning seriously for the next decade without relying on overseas nurses and doctors.

Oh and boo fucking hoo that you have to pay £4 to get to the doctors.....I am frontline NHS and if I want to park on site - as I did yesterday (because it was pissing down and I was late...) I have to pay £9.50....in order to do a 12.5 hour shift. All staff pay to get to work and park at work (admittedly less if you have been granted a parking permit- I'm on a waiting list so normally park 10 minutes away)
:mad:
 
kalidarkone said:
Who?
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kalidarkone said:
Because there are not enough full time GPS. Because there are not enough doctors or nurses. The compromise is that YOU pay bus fare and wait longer for treatment.
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That doesn't follow. I have to pay bus fares because they shut down the local surgery without consultation or even announcement. In an area which is one of the most disconnected in the country where First bus have also abandoned the community.

waiting longer for appointments is a different thing.

And i'm not defending that either.

kalidarkone said:
Even if we didn't strike there would be many preventable deaths as a consequence of there not being enough staff ANYWHERE within the NHS...in fact within health and Social care full stop.
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Yes. As I said, NHS staff have been sold down the river. At no point did I say this situation was okay.
kalidarkone said:
Oh and boo fucking hoo that you have to pay £4 to get to the doctors.....I am frontline NHS and if I want to park on site - as I did yesterday (because it was pissing down and I was late...) I have to pay £9.50....in order to do a 12.5 hour shift. All staff pay to get to work and park at work (admittedly less if you have been granted a parking permit- I'm on a waiting list so normally park 10 minutes away)
:mad:
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If you haven't got the money, it doesn't matter if it's four pounds or forty. As I said, no one should have to pay these kinds of charges. Patients should have access to local healthcare just the same as NHS staff shouldn't be scalped by their employer for having to travel to their job. I'm not sure where the disagreement is
 
Karl Masks said:
That doesn't follow. I have to pay bus fares because they shut down the local surgery without consultation or even announcement. In an area which is one of the most disconnected in the country where First bus have also abandoned the community.

waiting longer for appointments is a different thing.

And i'm not defending that either.


Yes. As I said, NHS staff have been sold down the river. At no point did I say this situation was okay.

If you haven't got the money, it doesn't matter if it's four pounds or forty. As I said, no one should have to pay these kinds of charges. Patients should have access to local healthcare just the same as NHS staff shouldn't be scalped by their employer for having to travel to their job. I'm not sure where the disagreement is
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In that you do not support the strikes.
 
Karl Masks said:
i don't support the critical workers themselves striking. I think others should strike in their place
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If the bus drivers strike you’re fucked for getting to the hospital anyway

What you’re essentially saying is no one should strike if you deem them a critical worker. Straight out of the Tory playbook.

Nobody striking actually wants to cause their patients or passengers inconvenience but withdrawing labour is an effective way to get through to the bosses and it does work.
 
DaveCinzano said:
If not us, who? :confused:

ETA:
Didn't see your far faster response Kali 🤣
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the broader labour movement. I'm not opposed to strikes per se and I absolutely agree with the cause. The NHS and its staff shouldn't be in this position. What the Tories have done is beyond criminal. I remain uncomfortable with what this means for patients. If that makes me the villain of the piece then so be it.
 
Elpenor said:
If the bus drivers strike you’re fucked for getting to the hospital anyway

What you’re essentially saying is no one should strike if you deem them a critical worker. Straight out of the Tory playbook.

Nobody striking actually wants to cause their patients or passengers inconvenience but withdrawing labour is an effective way to get through to the bosses and it does work.
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That depends on the definition of critical worker. But if the junior doctors and the nurses are on strike, and Im going to assume they will coordinate accordingly, it just means patients will be fucked.

Implying that I support Tory politics is disingenous. My politics would never have allowed this situation to get this far to begin with
 
Karl Masks said:
the broader labour movement. I'm not opposed to strikes per se and I absolutely agree with the cause. The NHS and its staff shouldn't be in this position. What the Tories have done is beyond criminal. I remain uncomfortable with what this means for patients. If that makes me the villain of the piece then so be it.
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In the scale of things and long-term- not much difference.
If we dont strike things will just continue getting worse. There is a chance with IA.

We are in such a hole now that even paying for private healthcare does not in anyway ensure better care. (Aside from private primary care perhaps) As its the same people working in the NHS that carry out the private health care, using the same hospitals and same equipment.

It's terrible for patients regardless. That's the point of striking. There is no way back so we can either suck it up OR strike and demand pay and training reforms and a massive reorganising of top tier management and the way healthcare is funded ( ie not privatised).

I feel our hands are tied.
 
Karl Masks said:
That depends on the definition of critical worker. But if the junior doctors and the nurses are on strike, and Im going to assume they will coordinate accordingly, it just means patients will be fucked.

Implying that I support Tory politics is disingenous. My politics would never have allowed this situation to get this far to begin with
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yes they would, you support the labour party

have you never heard of private finance initiative and public-private partnerships so widely used by the last two labour administrations?
 
weltweit said:
I don't think we should underestimate the effect Covid 19 has had on the NHS.

The NHS has been overwhelmed and thousands of normal appointments delayed or cancelled.
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The NHS has not been over-whelmed by Covid, and the impact of Covid has been over-played by the government to hide their decades of underfunding and is being used as an excuse. And even then some of the impacts are down to them anyway; staff ill-health due to poor PPE, etc etc.

Not disputing Covid has had an impact but it's much further down the list than the actions of the neoliberal political parties in the last 30 years.
 
Last edited:
After 2 and a bit years of not being that well I got a post-covid physio referral.

FIrst off I got a text saying if i missed the appointment it would cost the NHS £160. Is that really the price? I guess I was there for about 40 minutes and thats what plumbers charge, so maybe it is.

Overall it was a good experience but in practical terms I got two things out of them:
-a 12 week free gym membership at a Nuffield Health Gym
-some kind of Opera singing therapy on Zoom. (hmm will think about it)

Am interested in the gym one, tried to set it up but most of the gyms are "fully booked" for this scheme.
But I post it here because, is this a case of a private heatlh company owning gyms and getting the NHS to pay for people to go to the gym? Their usual fees seem really expensive.
In which case I dont feel bad not taking the offer up if its just giving a private healthcare company more NHS money

Anyone know? Ive not head of Nuffield Health. Nuffield Maths was something from school days but this I dont know
 
ska invita said:
After 2 and a bit years of not being that well I got a post-covid physio referral.

FIrst off I got a text saying if i missed the appointment it would cost the NHS £160. Is that really the price? I guess I was there for about 40 minutes and thats what plumbers charge, so maybe it is.

Overall it was a good experience but in practical terms I got two things out of them:
-a 12 week free gym membership at a Nuffield Health Gym
-some kind of Opera singing therapy on Zoom. (hmm will think about it)

Am interested in the gym one, tried to set it up but most of the gyms are "fully booked" for this scheme.
But I post it here because, is this a case of a private heatlh company owning gyms and getting the NHS to pay for people to go to the gym? Their usual fees seem really expensive.
In which case I dont feel bad not taking the offer up if its just giving a private healthcare company more NHS money

Anyone know? Ive not head of Nuffield Health. Nuffield Maths was something from school days but this I dont know
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According to DuckDuck go it's registered as a charity. not that it particularly means that much because Eton etc.
 
Chris Morris speaking at this years LMC conference. Lots of apposite jokes (his parents were both GP's).

 
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