Anti austerity march...urb meet up?

[butchersapron]

Yeah, well, as ever, we can agree to differ on this. There is no point in me trying to engage with you, so I won't.

Oh, I see you have edited your original post.

Note that I didn't say, nor do I believe, that politicians "fall into line".

I am not as naive as you think, or as you pretend to think.

Your argument was that it gave the state pause for thought. I.e it had achieved an instrumental end - it didn't. It couldn't. There's no reason to frame it in those terms - it can work in developing solidarity by just existing. There is no need to pretend it means anymore than that. And it certainly should not be used to witch hunt other comrades from their own struggles or linking them with the struggles of others.

 

[Citizen66]

That's not their response - they had decided that before the march started.

All of us, whether in positions to negotiate directly or not, should now be using the fact that 250,000 mostly non-activists marched peacefully in objection to the austerity plans.

Or, we can just sit around on a bulletin board, arguing with each other about whether there is any value to demonstration, while the Tory cunts continue.

Well it worked for Iraq.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Your argument was that it gave the state pause for thought. I.e it had achieved an instrumental end - it didn't. It couldn't. There's no reason to frame it in those terms - it can work in developing solidarity by just existing. There is no need to pretend it means anymore than that. And it certainly should not be used to witch hunt other comrades from their own struggles or linking them with the struggles of others.

Nope, that's not what I said.

I said that it gives individual politicians pause for thought, and I stand by that.

Neither am I "witch hunting" or detracting from anyone else's struggles.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Well it worked for Iraq.

FFS

Why is everyone having a go at me because I am feeling upbeat that hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets yesterday!

I am glad that I was on that anti-war demo back in the day, and I am glad that it happened. It didn't stop the war in Iraq, but that doesn't mean it was valueless.

 

[butchersapron]

Nope, that's not what I said.

I said that it gives individual politicians pause for thought, and I stand by that.

Neither am I "witch hunting" or detracting from anyone else's struggles.

That's politicians in their role as state isn't it? Otherwise it's meaningless.

You are. The very language you use is designed to exclude people who don't protest in the way that you would like them to:

can't be dismissed as the actions of a minority of troublemakers

Again, this plays out on the level of myth - politicians would listen if not for the nasty people. They are ours and just need to hear our voices.

treelover is at it too. Lessons never learnt.

 

[butchersapron]

FFS

Why is everyone having a go at me because I am feeling upbeat that hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets yesterday!

I am glad that I was on that anti-war demo back in the day, and I am glad that it happened. It didn't stop the war in Iraq, but that doesn't mean it was valueless.

I've not had a go at you. I responded to one of your claims about the demo.

 

[Citizen66]

FFS

Why is everyone having a go at me because I am feeling upbeat that hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets yesterday!

I am glad that I was on that anti-war demo back in the day, and I am glad that it happened. It didn't stop the war in Iraq, but that doesn't mean it was valueless.

It was meant to be a dig at treelover, I'm all fingers and thumbs on my phone though.

 

[Guineveretoo]

That's politicians in their role as state isn't it? Otherwise it's meaningless.

You are. The very language you use is designed to exclude people who don't protest in the way that you would like them to:



Again, this plays out on the level of myth - politicians would listen if not for the nasty people. They are ours and just need to hear our voices.

treelover is at it too. Lessons never learnt.

Rubbish.

I have repeatedly said that I think there is a time for peaceful protest, and that was yesterday was the time for it.

the bit you quote was me saying that this is what the bastard press have done in the past, and have detracted from the message of the demonstration by doing so.

I have been on many protests which have not been peaceful, and many that have. I have taken direct action myself, and I have also walked, with my child when she was small, on peaceful protest.

What have you done?

I was not an organiser of yesterday's demonstration - I am merely an observer, and am not in a position to tell anyone how they should demonstrate, but i am in a position to congratulate people when I think it is appropriate.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This was posted on twitter earlier, positioned on a roof over looking Parliament Sq -

Parabolic microphones?

They're mics, but no dishes, so not parabolic. Perhaps 2 pairs of stereo shotgun mics?

 

[Guineveretoo]

I've not had a go at you. I responded to one of your claims about the demo.

You are having a go at me. You have done it before and you will do it again. You are misreading what i am saying, whether deliberately or otherwise and, by doing so, making me out to be someone you think I am, but which doesn't fit my lifestyle or beliefs.

 

[ViolentPanda]

hydro://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/06/20/exclusive-imagesvideo-londons-huge-endtheausterity-march/

Proper arsehole, whoever writes the comments under the pics there.

"He likes free things and wants more", underneath a photo of a man protesting lack of social housing...Wanker.

It's Breitbart, aka full-on cuntitude.

 

[butchersapron]

Rubbish.

I have repeatedly said that I think there is a time for peaceful protest, and that was yesterday was the time for it.

the bit you quote was me saying that this is what the bastard press have done in the past, and have detracted from the message of the demonstration by doing so.

I have been on many protests which have not been peaceful, and many that have. I have taken direct action myself, and I have also walked, with my child when she was small, on peaceful protest.

What have you done?

I was not an organiser of yesterday's demonstration - I am merely an observer, and am not in a position to tell anyone how they should demonstrate, but i am in a position to congratulate people when I think it is appropriate.

What have i done? Really?

Where have i argued that yesterday needed violence? I haven't. It didn't. What i actually said was that the idea that the state - through politicians - had been given pause for thought, that they may challenge capitalist imperatives as a result of the demo, is just nonsense. Whilst saying the demo was worthwhile it its own terms, without that sort of rubbish justification.

And no, your point about the press is actually colluding with them as it - by definition - argues that those who give them what they want should be excluded. Again, it's part of those myths, that the press/politicians/state would actually be helpful if not for the nasty people. It ignores the reasons why they act as they do.

 

[butchersapron]

You are having a go at me. You have done it before and you will do it again. You are misreading what i am saying, whether deliberately or otherwise and, by doing so, making me out to be someone you think I am, but which doesn't fit my lifestyle or beliefs.

I'm not. I'm criticising one of the things that you said in your posts.

edit: your aggressive overreaction here is bizarre.

 

[Guineveretoo]

What have i done? Really?

Where have i argued that yesterday needed violence? I haven't. It didn't. What i actually said was that the idea that the state - through politicians - had been given pause for thought, that they may challenge capitalist imperatives as a result of the demo, is just nonsense. Whilst saying the demo was worthwhile it its own terms, without that sort of rubbish justification.

And no, your point about the press is actually colluding with them as it - by definition - argues that those who give them what they want should be excluded. Again, it's part of those myths, that the press/politicians/state would actually be helpful if not for the nasty people. It ignores the reasons why they act as they do.

You are misrepresenting me and what I said.

I am not gaining anything by allowing myself to be dragged in to arguing with you, and I know from bitter experience, that you will continue to misread and misrepresent and misunderstand me, so I am doing what I should have done straight away, and I am stepping away, and will go back to ignoring you.

I will also go back to celebrating yesterday's demonstration and congratulating those who took part in it.

 

[Orang Utan]

They are on facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/ThePeoplesAssembly?fref=nf

It was a good speech, though some of it was bollocks. But she did well on the necessity of public services. Fair play Ms Church.

 

[butchersapron]

You are misrepresenting me and what I said.

I am not gaining anything by allowing myself to be dragged in to arguing with you, and I know from bitter experience, that you will continue to misread and misrepresent and misunderstand me, so I am doing what I should have done straight away, and I am stepping away, and will go back to ignoring you.

I will also go back to celebrating yesterday's demonstration and congratulating those who took part in it.

Every man woman or child on that demo is a bastard. That's right, that's what i said.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Bollocks. There are plenty of masked up posh students wearing black, but they tend to melt away at the first sign of trouble.

It wouldn't do for Tarquin, Farquhar and Jolyon to get a criminal record, would it?

 

[ddraig]

Guin, you may feel it worthwhile and pat yourself on the back for it but please don't use it to ask people 'what have you done?' as if you've done your bit and they haven't done theirs. Butchers does plenty fwiw.
that sounds harsher on you than i mean but you are a union bod and this is one of the things unions use to recruit and look like they are fighting austerity so a very shiny happy spin is put on it.
what will change due to the march yesterday?

 

[Guineveretoo]

Every man woman or child on that demo is a bastard. That's right, that's what i said.

How the fuck do you get to me implying that, from the post that you quoted?

It is laughable, really.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Guin, you may feel it worthwhile and pat yourself on the back for it but please don't use it to ask people 'what have you done?' as if you've done your bit and they haven't done theirs. Butchers does plenty fwiw.
that sounds harsher on you than i mean but you are a union bod and this is one of the things unions use to recruit and look like they are fighting austerity so a very shiny happy spin is put on it.
what will change due to the march yesterday?

I am not a "union bod", and I am not patting myself on the back, either. I was simply pointing out that I do support direct action, and have taken part in it myself on many occasions over the years.

 

[Nice one]

Frequently they people who do the 'smashing' aren't the ones suffering and often disappear from the struggle a couple of years later, leaving the marginalised to continue.

Bollocks. There are plenty of masked up posh students wearing black, but they tend to melt away at the first sign of trouble.

aren't you both basically saying the same thing, just giving a different timescale?

 

[Guineveretoo]

aren't you both basically saying the same thing, just giving a different timescale?

I thought that as well, but then thought that maybe OU was saying that the posh students don't even do the smashing?

 

[treelover]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...osborne-call-labour-support-12bn-welfare-cuts


Andy Burnham opposing (some of)the 12 billlion cuts saying "he will not support ‘brutal plans’ and that the chancellor should expect a fight over any cuts to disability benefits or tax credits"


I sincerely hope this is not labour party electioneering and that he will stick to this position if he is elected,

 

[Mr.Bishie]

They're mics, but no dishes, so not parabolic. Perhaps 2 pairs of stereo shotgun mics?

So definitely listening devices?

 

[Guineveretoo]

So definitely listening devices?

Was it these guys?

http://www.parliamentsquare.org/services/filming/

 

[Nice one]

I thought that as well, but then thought that maybe OU was saying that the posh students don't even do the smashing?

Ah possibly.

I've no idea what the young people get up to on the demos these days

 

[DotCommunist]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-welfare-cuts-despite-anti-austerity-protests

Osborne's and Smith's response, the 12 billion of welfare cuts will go ahead, they are relishing it.

well it wasn't like they were going to go 'hang on, you lot have a point. I'll just do the decent thing and top myself'

I still don't see how those figures add up though, even by treating under 25s like total scum isn't going to save that muych money.

 

[Fingers]

.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So definitely listening devices?

I think so.
Could be laser mics, I suppose, rather than common or garden shotguns. They pick up sound as a vibration from convenient surfaces like windows.

 

[brogdale]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...osborne-call-labour-support-12bn-welfare-cuts


Andy Burnham opposing (some of)the 12 billlion cuts saying "he will not support ‘brutal plans’ and that the chancellor should expect a fight over any cuts to disability benefits or tax credits"


I sincerely hope this is not labour party electioneering and that he will stick to this position if he is elected,

He said...

The senior Labour MP said he was not against all reductions in the benefits bill to help cut the deficit but he would not “go along with brutal plans that would hurt many vulnerable people”.

“If this chancellor thinks it is acceptable to take benefits off disabled people who can’t replace that income, or if he is coming after the tax credits of people on low incomes in work, then he is going to have a fight on his hands,” Burnham told Murnaghan on Sky News.

Anyone else, particularly the young, is fair game.
Scum.