Anti austerity march...urb meet up?
- Thread starter albionism
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chainsawjob
Kipping in the dunes
And you too! First Urbanite I've met that I didn't already know from elsewhere/meet through another context.
Very well said Rebelda. Yes I feel better for having raised my voice alongside so many others who feel the same, many like me who wouldn't get involved if it weren't so inclusive. I know it's only a starting point. I was suprised by the party atmosphere, and worry slightly that I enjoyed it too much, it does seem incongrous when anger and injustice are the reasons we were there. This is all new to me!
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
The main reason that there were fewer union banners and people around, is that this march was organised by a group outside of the trade union movement. That's also what makes it so fantastic that they got so many people there and made it genuinely "grassroots".
In that respect, it should make the politicians sit up a bit - it's not just trade union "barons" stirring up trouble for the sake of it... Etc.
Also, the fact of little or no vandalism it broken windows is important. This was a march against a political policy -austerity - and attacking Starbucks or other big business detracts from that.
I think it was fantastic and I hope that the unions, campaign groups and everyone else involved in fights to defend us against the consequences of austerity will remind politicians of the strength of feeling demonstrated by such a good turn out of "ordinary" people.
In that respect, it should make the politicians sit up a bit - it's not just trade union "barons" stirring up trouble for the sake of it... Etc.
Also, the fact of little or no vandalism it broken windows is important. This was a march against a political policy -austerity - and attacking Starbucks or other big business detracts from that.
I think it was fantastic and I hope that the unions, campaign groups and everyone else involved in fights to defend us against the consequences of austerity will remind politicians of the strength of feeling demonstrated by such a good turn out of "ordinary" people.
Maharani
Just like Heaven
A small point but what about when big businesses like Starbucks (They might have paid back some of what they owe but I'm sure there are others that haven't) fail to pay their taxes and then don't get hammered for it by the government? I fully see the point in smashing windows of establishments like this. I understand why people would damage property to show their anger.
I'm really surprised that out of 250,000++ people there really wasn't any trouble. I doubt the police could be that efficient to have nipped things in the bud before anything kicked off.
I'm really surprised that out of 250,000++ people there really wasn't any trouble. I doubt the police could be that efficient to have nipped things in the bud before anything kicked off.
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
One of the reasons that companies like Starbucks are getting away with not paying enough tax is because the "austerity measures" have cut the staff at HMRC to the minimum, and they simply don't have the capacity to go for these guys. They are not coping, and it is not their fault. The fault lies with the politicians.
Maharani
Just like Heaven
Really? But HMRC have the capacity to go for utter guys? Don't get me started on how they like to fuck up small businesses.
Treacle Toes
Time
That is a great point actually. I went alone so was free to move around more easily. What I found really heartening and interesting was the amount of very small, self organised groups there were. I also also impressed by how many people from around the UK had come too, which is an important detail when you haven't got a union laying on buses etc. People put their hands in their pockets and made the effort.
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
The people who work for HMRC are really struggling to keep up with everything chucked at them by the government.
They will continue to go after small businesses and individuals who fuck up their taxes and don't pay them, because that is their job. The reason that some larger companies get away with paying less tax is that they are very clever, and pay experts to help them find loopholes, and other experts to help them move their money around so that they are not breaking the law in any obvious way, so HMRC can't go after them. If HMRC had spare capacity, they could take on experts to try and counter/close the loopholes, but they don't.
None of it is the fault of the civil servants, though.
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
Sometimes, these marches are so union-focussed, that individuals who are not part of a union (including people who are unable to work, for example) don't feel able to join in.
I didn't see the Woodcraft Folk this time, but I saw them on the big one a couple of years ago, and I was really pleased to see children being taught about speaking up. I remember they had a chant something like "what do we want - a job for life - when do we want it - not yet"
Maharani
Just like Heaven
Agreed.
Fingers
From Tuscany SE22
Ruptly is a double edged sword. Whilst it is good for those who cannot attend demos, there are a few occasions where I have been to oppose far right demos and you end up all over it.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
There are also political (ideological) factors that explain why the apparatus of the neo-lib, capitalist state fails to pursue financialised capital for revenue purposes, aside from the practical issues of resourcing that you mention.
The financialised corporates find it more profitable to lend to sovereign states; that way they get to extract money from the state by earning interest on the lending (paid for by you & me), get the principle sum back, and then presume to dictate fiscal consolidation (austerity) on the basis that the sovereign states are too indebted.
Cunts of the very highest order.
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
You sound a bit like Russell Brand there - a hint of sesquipedalianism, methinks
But you are right - there are also political reasons why the big tax evaders are not being pursued with as much vigour as they should be. But that, also, is not the fault of the civil servants who are only doing their jobs. In fact, the trade unions in HMRC have run campaigns to point both of these things out!
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Perhaps I should have added.......once you start to envisage the neo-lib state as merely some sort of facilitating, sub-contracted agency working on behalf of financialised capital, charged with regressive wealth re-distribution...things tend to make more sense. Contrast say Labour, who are signed up to this role, with Syriza who appear to be challenging the expected role of a modern, neo-lib government.
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
You sound a bit like Russell Brand there - a hint of sesquipedalianism, methinks
But you are right - there are also political reasons why the big tax evaders are not being pursued with as much vigour as they should be. But that, also, is not the fault of the civil servants who are only doing their jobs. In fact, the trade unions in HMRC have run campaigns to point both of these things out!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the poll tax riot was a demonstration against a political policybut any 'vandalism' that occurred did not imo detract from the thrust of the protest. in addition, imo business should know 1) their political actions have a price; & 2) non-payment of tax is not without cost
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Derek and Clive are smiling from the grave, but wonder whether the author could have fitted in an occasional "cunt".
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
I agree.
But yesterday's march was not the time to show them that, as the message was stronger because it was focussed directly on the political position.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
but not on the people turning a profit out of precarity. this may come to be seen as a failing in the future.
chainsawjob
Kipping in the dunes
They were there. Also I liked Psychologists Against Austerity, their banner read something like 'Psychologists against misery, poverty and the cuts'. The social workers union was there too, who apparently didn't go to the last TU organised one (possibly a branch as opposed to the whole organisation nationally). I went unaffiliated to anyone, just with a bunch of friends (facilitated by PA laying on coaches), I think a lot of people did.
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
I don't even understand the phrase "people turning a profit out of precarity" so I have no idea why you think 250,000 people marching peacefully to demonstrate to the government that they are opposed to the "austerity measures" being imposed upon society may be regarded as a failure.
Guineveretoo
Mostly bewildered
I am really glad they were there!
And, as I say, I think the fact that so many of the marchers were not just obeying their union by being there, is one of the things which strengthens the message.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Although this chap's effort with "FUCK OFF & DIE" deserves some credit....
hydro://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/06/20/exclusive-imagesvideo-londons-huge-endtheausterity-march/
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I know you've got a hard-on for physical direct action, but you should acknowledge that people who do this are (and have always been) a minority, and that's all to the good in terms of long-term strategy and sound tactics.
I'm sure it'd make great TV to have had angry hordes rampaging along Whitehall, or mass pissing up the walls of the Bank of England, but it wouldn't have achieved anything for us. What will achieve things for us is attacking carefully-chosen targets with the best weapons we have, whether they be physical or intellectual. The fewer reasons we give the Home Secretary to start banning protests, the better the momentum required to build a long-term federation of interests can be kept up.
You seem to be mistaking running riot with founding a "vaguely radical street movement".
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
oh yeh. by the political position you mean the universal view that tories = cunts, as so many placards said. or as the swp said, tories are filth. while not wishing to disociate myself from that view, it is unlikely to lead the current administration to change its flagship policy. the labour party's pro-austerity. there is no clear end to austerity, it's there for the foreseeable. i wonder what position you'll take when windows are broken this summer or next.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you seem to think we're all in this together despite the evidence from the past five years that austerity provides great business opportunities for some. and given the negligible effect larger peaceful marches have had eg against iraq war or for fox hunting, it shpuld be viewed more as a fun day out than action likely to lead to a change in govt policy.
albionism
A successful virus clinging to a speck of mud.
hydro://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/06/20/exclusive-imagesvideo-londons-huge-endtheausterity-march/
Proper arsehole, whoever writes the comments under the pics there.
"He likes free things and wants more", underneath a photo of a man protesting lack of social housing...Wanker.
Proper arsehole, whoever writes the comments under the pics there.
"He likes free things and wants more", underneath a photo of a man protesting lack of social housing...Wanker.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
why 4?This was posted on twitter earlier, positioned on a roof over looking Parliament Sq -
Parabolic microphones?
