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Amanda Knox Is Innocent

For you to introduce the conjuring of yet another motive (the 4th) 5 years after conviction in order to show that the conduct of the investigation/trial/verdict is beyond reproach is frankly bonkers, (especially as you describe yourself as 'neutral').
That the judge went public with it, entirely contrary to his own rules is a further bizarre demonstration of the entire administration being in a tailspin.

:facepalm: Are you on a wind up or are you just stupid? I haven't introduced anything. The Judge has introduced a motive. I am not a judge, neither are you. Get it? The point I'm making is you are saying there's no case to answer, where there very obviously is one hence all the court trials, documents, DNA samples, detective work, autopsy, dead body, blood, accused people etc etc. Once again you wilfully ignore the bit where I said 'it's crass' for the judge to make statements to the media and just carry on assuming I'm in complete agreement with everything the case has found. You've already been show to be talking bollocks by suggesting the footprints were an urban myth when they were, rightly or wrongly, in the original and appeal court documents.

I'll ask again, is it really that difficult to see the difference between 'well I don't really have a clue because there's so many different stories told by the accused, there's some evidence albeit a bit flimsy, the case file is bigger than the Oxford dictionary etc' (my position) and 'fuck the loopy slag she's guilty as sin.' (pretty much no one's position on here)

I'll say the same to you as well. Actually read what people are saying and take your blinkers off.
 
Knox's blog and myspace was taken down and her stories and writings removed. However, not before someone saved it all. It is uploaded and reproduced here

http://patrishka.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/amanda-knox/

including the whole baby brother story.
Nothing especially fishy there - young girls like a bit of trauma in their fiction. The most interesting thing is that she's written from a male perspective, which is really unusual... But irrelevant.

The quality of the writing, however, was shite. As befits an average 20 year old.
 
Yes, that makes sense. Mind you sometimes you can tell stuff from individual words. Tony Blair always signalled that he was about to lie by saying 'Frankly'; when he was about to tell a great big whopper, he said 'To be perfectly frank'. It's really quite a reliable one, that.

Yeah, but you could tell that because you (and we) were repeatedly exposed to it, and the context was always the same, IYSWIM. :D
 
For you to introduce the conjuring of yet another motive (the 4th) 5 years after conviction in order to show that the conduct of the investigation/trial/verdict is beyond reproach is frankly bonkers, (especially as you describe yourself as 'neutral').
That the judge went public with it, entirely contrary to his own rules is a further bizarre demonstration of the entire administration being in a tailspin.

Poor old Joe. You really get in a tizzy when people don't follow your prescriptions, don't you?
 
Her obvious innocence is of course so obvious that you needn't bother looking at the evidence or answering anyone's questions on here. You troll your own thread.
 
Her latest PR campaign. Ugh.

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Another link from that statement analysis blog, this time showing the 911 call that Soleccito made from the crime scene. In the comments section they pick it to bits very well, showing it, in my opinion, to be a classic case of alibi building. Bear in mind the break in was staged.

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com.es/2014/02/911-calls-from-amanda-knox-case.html
seems more to be lots of nit picking after the fact with a phone conversation translated from Italian to English to me.

I'd be interested to hear wiskey's take on how clear and concise most people are when ringing 999, I suspect it'd be pretty typical to get calls that don't immediately cut to the chase, particularly bearing in mind that (if they were innocent) they don't actually know what's been going on and would be pretty unsure about the whole situation.
 
I'd be interested to hear wiskey's take on how clear and concise most people are when ringing 999, I suspect it'd be pretty typical to get calls that don't immediately cut to the chase, particularly bearing in mind that (if they were innocent) they don't actually know what's been going on and would be pretty unsure about the whole situation.

Cutting to the chase is what the job entails, but during the triage programme (which Italy also uses (now, I don't know about then)) there isn't a lot of scope for free questioning.

Some calls are just a wall of screaming and it can take a while to get info, these people tend to misunderstand questions ('where has he been stabbed?'... 'in the kitchen'..' no, where on his body').

Or it can be completely calm, like the girl who when I asked exactly what happened (the 6th question in the sequence) she just said 'I've stabbed my boyfriend' (they came back from the pub, she was making a sandwich. He was needling her and she stuck the knife in him. I felt so sorry for her). But even then establishing the order things happened in can be confusing.

With stabbings often nobody saw what happened, one minute everything was OK, the next there's blood. Also people often seem surprised at how many wounds there are, they presume there is one but actually there can be 5 or 6.

But in answer to your question, no, ime people are generally neither clear nor concise. And even if they are calm and it's a good line getting the info we need can be challenging. Often you have to get in there before they get reflective and start processing what they've seen because then they get upset.
 
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thought as much, it was bad enough with stewards over a radio at festivals... I think someone's dead / unconscious on the ground... where are you?... they aren't moving, they're just lying there... what's your location?...silence... last caller please tell me what your location is so we can send the first aid team to you... it's ok they've just got up and staggered off to the campsite.... grrr
 
OK I just read the transcript of the call... I'm not bloody surprised he put the phone down on them, the call is a disaster!

I've heard 'alibi building' (prostitute ringing for a guy who's gone over on smack, but she's not supposed to be there (and she's robbed him) but her conscience won't let her just walk away and leave him like that). And you could tell she'd wrestled with herself for some time, she was desperate to get off the phone.

That call however just sounded like he wants someone to come because the person on the phone is shit. There's no structure. The operator doesn't get control of the call, doesn’t listen, doesn't clarify anything.

Occasionally I've resorted to sending a truck to investigate because the call makes no sense and I have a resource and it's easier than trying to deal with a moron on the phone/drunk person/language barrier. But if an English person rang up and mentioned blood like that there's no way I'd just say 'OK someone will come round at some point'. At the very least I'd be wanting the door opened to see if someone was injured.

And I've made a lot of people do things they don't think they want to over the phone, he would have opened that door.

Eta: so I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't read much into that call because the police were shit

And more: I have regularly been told to 'listen' by callers, even though it's my job. And I've had horribly tragic calls start with 'good morning'. Those comments are fixated on strange things imo... But then I have no idea if knox is guilty and they seem to have made up their minds one way or another.
 
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Thanks for posting that, it's very interesting. I'm taking it with a large pinch of salt because I don't know enough about the science though. For example, is it really the case that mentioning water indicates something sexual? But there is some stuff on there which rings absolutely true. I thought her statement was very weird indeed when I read it - completely tortured language, everything phrased passively and strangely - but I thought she was just a very bad writer. The analysis of her email is interesting too:

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/amanda-knox-email-analyzed.html

...I had always thought the email read like someone trying to memorise an alibi rather than a genuine piece of communication.

This seems pretty bad as well, not acknowledging the impact being stoned can have on perception of time / what went on in the evening, nor the impact of 3 days solid of intensive questioning with hardly any sleep in terms of implanting false memories in someone's head, and making their memory and judgement all go pretty trippy - especially someone who's been traumatised by find the body of their flatmate.

I remember when a mate of mine committed suicide, I woke up a couple of days later with this absolutely vivid memory of having seen him jump, then staggering around taking a few minutes to die at the bottom. Talking to a mate about this later he said that he'd spoken with people who actually did see it, and that was what had happened... but I definitely wasn't there, as I was running a club night across town that night with 300 people in it. To this day though I've got this scene of it happening stuck in my brain as if I was actually there watching it, when I definitely wasn't.

The mind can play some strange tricks on people, particularly when they've been taking drugs, and / or are very sleep deprived and in a stressful situation.

to me, had she actually been a killer trying to cover her tracks she would never have been saying any of this stuff, the fact she is saying it just makes her seem a lot more like a scared, confused, sleep deprived kid who's just undergone a pretty horrific ordeal in the police station.

The alternative scenario to explain her bizarre half memories of things being the impact of the weed they'd been smoking, and anything else they'd been drinking / taking. It does sound pretty like how I'd sound if attempting to explain my memories of events around the night I ended up in hospital having chucked something through my own front window and dived through after it while completely off it, after having been chased down a back alley and nicked by a copper, and a couple of other or a few other occasions. Not that this in itself would mean she was or wasn't the killer, just that it'd explain why her and Rafael seem to have struggled to piece together what they were doing that evening

If people are going to be analysing these letters etc that's definitely the element of them that seems to be the most worth considering the implications of, rather than the bullshit of trying to link her mentioning of water with sexual desires or some such twaddle.
 
This seems pretty bad as well, not acknowledging the impact being stoned can have on perception of time / what went on in the evening, nor the impact of 3 days solid of intensive questioning with hardly any sleep in terms of implanting false memories in someone's head, and making their memory and judgement all go pretty trippy - especially someone who's been traumatised by find the body of their flatmate.

I remember when a mate of mine committed suicide, I woke up a couple of days later with this absolutely vivid memory of having seen him jump, then staggering around taking a few minutes to die at the bottom. Talking to a mate about this later he said that he'd spoken with people who actually did see it, and that was what had happened... but I definitely wasn't there, as I was running a club night across town that night with 300 people in it. To this day though I've got this scene of it happening stuck in my brain as if I was actually there watching it, when I definitely wasn't.

The mind can play some strange tricks on people, particularly when they've been taking drugs, and / or are very sleep deprived and in a stressful situation.

to me, had she actually been a killer trying to cover her tracks she would never have been saying any of this stuff, the fact she is saying it just makes her seem a lot more like a scared, confused, sleep deprived kid who's just undergone a pretty horrific ordeal in the police station.

The alternative scenario to explain her bizarre half memories of things being the impact of the weed they'd been smoking, and anything else they'd been drinking / taking. It does sound pretty like how I'd sound if attempting to explain my memories of events around the night I ended up in hospital having chucked something through my own front window and dived through after it while completely off it, after having been chased down a back alley and nicked by a copper, and a couple of other or a few other occasions. Not that this in itself would mean she was or wasn't the killer, just that it'd explain why her and Rafael seem to have struggled to piece together what they were doing that evening

If people are going to be analysing these letters etc that's definitely the element of them that seems to be the most worth considering the implications of, rather than the bullshit of trying to link her mentioning of water with sexual desires or some such twaddle.

I'm really sorry for your loss, freespirit, and I take your point about memories and trauma.

There's a few points of fact I'd take issue with though. What is the '3 days solid of intensive questioning with hardly any sleep'? I hadn't heard of this, do you have a link? According to their story, they actually would have been quite well rested I thought, as they say they slept all night (although phone and computer records as well as witnesses say different). The questioning (as witnesses) where Sollecito took away Knox's alibi and Knox admitted to being at the scene and accused Lumumba took a couple of hours, with a wait for the interpreter to arrive before it began. I think the details are on the wiki but I can't access it from where I am.

I've had major blackouts before when I've been drinking heavily - total memory wipe after a certain point basically - sometimes fragments come back later as something prompts a memory. I have never had anything comparable through smoking weed though - memories a bit hazy and fuzzy - sure, but I have always been able to remember what I did and the sequence in which I did it - especially if I had just been sitting in with my partner watching a film. Now, maybe they have super strong herb in Perugia, I don't know, but I'm a bit sceptical to be honest.

Lastly, you say you don't think a killer trying to cover their tracks would talk this way - I'm not sure how one could know or speculate what would be going through the mind of a killer in that situation - particularly one who had never killed before (surely the potential reactions are more varied and unpredictable than those for people who have witnessed something traumatic?). Keeping control of emotions and getting the lies right and in the right order would be stressful and difficult, and anything to muddy the waters would be helpful I guess. The sort of tell - tale sign for me is that instead of just saying 'we did this, we did that', a painstaking rationale is offered for everything - like they know what they are saying sounds weird and makes no sense so they have to explain it away (stuff about the shower, broken pipe, mop etc). When I saw that Sollecito made up the story about Meredith Kercher visiting his house and him pricking her finger with the kitchen knife that had her DNA on it as a way of creating an 'innocent explanation', I thought that here is someone who has spent a long time coming up with stories to fit awkward facts. I don't think trauma or being a bit stoned can explain intentionally misleading the police in a murder investigation over a period of years.
 
I watched that BBC 3 program. Was better than I thought actually, just gave a good overview of the case and interviewed prosecution, defence and so on. A couple of things that stood out for me was the staged break in. I didn't realise the rock was so fucking enormous, apparently there's no way a person could've chucked that up through the window and there's apparently no way it would've fit through the slats, but then that leaves the only other option of someone carrying a fucking great rock through the flat which surely would've left evidence? No idea.

The other thing was the little chat with what is apparently the world's leading expert in DNA analysis from UCL London. According to him the bra clasp had far too much of Sollecito's DNA on it for to have got there by mere contamination and the only way it could've got there was by him coming into contact with it. The Italian police asked for his advice but it wasn't used in the trial? Seems odd. A lot of it's odd really. The blood of Knox mixed with Kercher's is also strange but then again the defence make the case that it could've been saliva DNA and not blood and that a test for saliva was never done. There have been so many balls ups in the investigation though :facepalm:. Also the fact Kercher was apparently well trained in karate and, according to prosecution, there was no way only one person could have attacked her as there are too many injuries on her and a person who knew karate may not have fought someone off, but it's extremely unlikely that only one person could do that much damage, 80 wounds!

I think my final view of it is I'm still on the fence but I lean slightly more towards guilt than innocence. I don't think Knox and Sollecito were necessarily involved in the murder itself but I am absolutely convinced they know something more than they're letting on. I just think there's too much reasonable doubt for them to be convicted and should therefore be acquitted. As mentioned earlier, better to let a guilty person go free than lock up an innocent one.
 
The other thing was the little chat with what is apparently the world's leading expert in DNA analysis from UCL London. According to him the bra clasp had far too much of Sollecito's DNA on it for to have got there by mere contamination and the only way it could've got there was by him coming into contact with it.


Not an unimportant detail that.
 
W
For you to introduce the conjuring of yet another motive (the 4th) 5 years after conviction in order to show that the conduct of the investigation/trial/verdict is beyond reproach is frankly bonkers, (especially as you describe yourself as 'neutral').
That the judge went public with it, entirely contrary to his own rules is a further bizarre demonstration of the entire administration being in a tailspin.

What IS the motive supposed to be these days? I've lost track...
 
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