Is America heading towards dictatorship?

[mwgdrwg]

Nobody besides Trump has the same kind of loyalty / cult of personality and Trump won't let anyone else develop one while he's around, which, thankfully, won't be that long, as he's 78

I'm predicting a North Korea style succession...we might have a "Trump" in charge for decades.

Have a great Monday!

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

In this book How to Lose a Country: The Seven Steps from Democracy to Dictatorship by Turkish journalist Ece Temelkuran she sets out seven steps based on her experience of Turkish politics

• The Cult of Personality: This is the first step in the transition to dictatorship. It involves the creation of a leader with a larger-than-life persona. This leader becomes central to the nation's identity, with their image and ideas promoted everywhere, often with the help of media manipulation and populist rhetoric.
• The Demonization of the "Other": In this stage, the leader and their supporters create a clear distinction between "us" and "them." "The other" is often defined as a threat or enemy to the state. This otherness can be based on ideology, religion, ethnicity, or even political opposition, with the goal of creating fear and division in society.
• The Elimination of Checks and Balances: This step involves dismantling democratic institutions that are designed to limit the power of the leader. Independent judiciary, free media, and civil society organizations are targeted, often under the guise of national security or protecting the people from external or internal threats.
• The Erosion of Trust in Institutions: Trust in democratic institutions, including the legal system, media, and other pillars of society, is systematically eroded. This is often achieved by spreading misinformation, undermining the credibility of independent institutions, and stoking doubt about their legitimacy.
• The Weaponization of Fear: Fear is used as a tool to control the population. This might involve exaggerated or fabricated threats, both real and imagined, which are presented as dangerous to national security or cultural identity. The leader promises to protect citizens from these threats, but at the cost of individual freedoms.
• The Consolidation of Power: The leader consolidates their power by gaining control over the government, military, and key institutions. This is often achieved through strategic alliances, purges of opposition figures, and constitutional changes that weaken checks on executive power.
• The Suppression of Dissent: The final step is the silencing of any form of opposition, whether political, social, or media-based. Dissenters are labeled as traitors or enemies of the state, and legal, economic, or even physical retribution may be used to suppress any resistance.

The extent to which consolidation of power and suppression of dissent are key here...its not at full dictatorship levels yet, but they've clearly signalled they plan to go for that consolidation and suppression. Getting close for sure

We can see that happening, but as has been mentioned, Trump is 78, if he was 48 I think we should be terrified, but at 78 his days are numbered and he surrounds himself with people who are not very likeable so that his limelight can't be taken, that seems like a positive.

Personally, I'd be putting moving, or just travelling, to the US, alongside moving to China, or NK, or Russia in the fucking dumb ideas bucket.

We have booked our Easter break to be a long weekend in DC, will allow Trump a couple of months to bed in then be over there to sort that crap out once and for all.

 

[tim]

I know it's quite different but "illegal immigrants" have been filling a similar role in US politics for a while

It's no different, at all.

 

[emanymton]

Just spitting out random thoughts

Does a dictator have to be some Charismatic individual?

I look at dictatorship around the world and they don't strike asCharismatic and likeable Sorts, But then I don't get the appeal of most famous people so what do I know.

But Trump seems to successful because people ignore who he is and just project what they want into him.

Also maybe the US csn become even more deeply authoritarian without the need for focus on a individual.

 

[ska invita]

.

It's bollocks, basically. He says he'll cut 2 trillion. He's unlikely to be able to cut even a tenth of that amount.

I'm not really interested in the financial saving aspect, more in the parts of the state that provide checks and balances

 

[ska invita]

We can see that happening, but as has been mentioned, Trump is 78, if he was 48 I think we should be terrified, but at 78 his days are numbered and he surrounds himself with people who are not very likeable so that his limelight can't be taken, that seems like a positive.






We have booked our Easter break to be a long weekend in DC, will allow Trump a couple of months to bed in then be over there to sort that crap out once and for all.

This doesn't end with Trump, far from it

 

[tim]

Sicmnclaur Lewis's "It Can't Happen Here" gave a 1930s take on takevonvthe USA turning in the snow when we visited becoming a dictatorship

It Can't Happen Here

 

[PTK]

Personally, I'd be putting moving, or just travelling, to the US, alongside moving to China, or NK, or Russia in the fucking dumb ideas bucket.

I genuinely think that US society has no grasp whatsoever about what is about to happen to it - I think it has had it's last meaningful Presidential election for well over a decade, and that the scale of things like disenfranchisement, de facto abolition of rule of law, destruction of de facto political freedoms and all the other norms of ademocratic/liberal political system is going to rival that seen in Germany between 1933 and 1939.

In fact I would be surprised if internment camps for political/legal enemies of Trump/his successor aren't a thing by 2028 - the only light in this darkest of timelines will be the solid possibility that many of those who said that Harris was sufficiently poor on 'left' issues that voting for her/against Trump wasn't worth getting out of bed for, will get to sample the joys of a Nebraskan winter from behind barbed wire.

If I was Biden, or Harris, or any publicly known Democrat - or people like Liz Cheney or Mitt Romney on the Republican side - I'd genuinely be looking at places I might get political asylum.

Visiting Russia or China is not a dangerous thing to do. It is rather xenophobic to claim that it is.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's no different, at all.

Opposition to Kurdish separatists unites the Erdogan-style Muslim conservatives with Kemalist secular nationalists. That's very useful to Erdogan as the Turkish military is full of officers in that second category.

Illegal immigrants don't perform the same function in the US.

 

[PTK]

If I was Biden, or Harris, or any publicly known Democrat - or people like Liz Cheney or Mitt Romney on the Republican side - I'd genuinely be looking at places I might get political asylum.

Biden Harris, Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney will not be locked up.

 

[kebabking]

Biden Harris, Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney will not be locked up.

Fancy a wager?

How much are your prepared to risk on that very bold statement?

 

[PTK]

Opposition to Kurdish separatists unites the Erdogan-style Muslim conservatives with Kemalist secular nationalists. That's very useful to Erdogan as the Turkish military is full of officers in that second category.

That is a good point. The right in Turkey is split between two different world views.

 

[PTK]

Fancy a wager?

How much are your prepared to risk on that very bold statement?

One hundred pounds.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Fancy a wager?

How much are your prepared to risk on that very bold statement?

I'll take that. 20 quid to the server fund (big spender!) but we'll need a time frame. Call it the first two years of the presidency when we know he'll have trifecta.

 

[ska invita]

FT speculating about a market crash in US shares today ... Can you imagine that in this climate

 

[emanymton]

I'll take that. 20 quid to the server fund (big spender!) but we'll need a time frame. Call it the first two years of the presidency when we know he'll have trifecta.

I was going to say a fiver but I'll agree to the same terms.

But I would add that it has to be obviously politically motivated. If one of them gets pissed and drives into someone or something it doesn't count.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Visiting Russia or China is not a dangerous thing to do. It is rather xenophobic to claim that it is.

Good job they have not said that then, isn't it.

 

[PTK]

Good job they have not said that then, isn't it.

Well, the poster said it was a stupid thing to do, so I imagine that the implication was that people visiting Russia or China would be in danger of being arrested, given the context of the thread being about the danger of the USA becoming a dictatorship/

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

They said moving to China, North Korea or Russia would be stupid right now, NOT visiting any of them.

tbf, as a UK passport holder I would avoid visiting Russia and/or North Korea right now, would have no qualms over visiting China.

 

[Idris2002]

then every man must stand behind the men behind the wire.

"armoured cars and tanks and guns

come to take away our burger buns"

 

[emanymton]

Good job they have not said that then, isn't it.

Visiting Russia might actually be a dangerous thing for him to do.

 

[Idris2002]

I'll be honest, when I hear 'but what will American Capital do?', I'm reminded of how many times I read on here that 'UK Capital won't allow Brexit/No Deal'...

And yet...

About twenty years ago in Belfast I heard Mike Davis speak. What stuck with me was his point that the bitterness of Democrat-Republican relations reflects a genuine and very deep rooted split in American capitalism, and capital, as a whole. Oil, military tech, etc. - these were Republican. Entertainment (Hollywood), Silicon valley - these were democratic. And neither were able to agree, or would be able to agree on a common set of principles they could follow. . . they would be locking horns over these two for the foreseeable future. . .

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Visiting Russia might actually be a dangerous thing for him to do.

I would avoid it, and North Korea. If I were a senior officer in the British Army I would imagine my bosses may have a few choice words to say if I announced that either of those places were my holiday destination this winter.

 

[Lotte]

I wonder if Trump will end up like Niyazov. Though I know Turkmenistan became a dictatorship in a very different context.