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Amanda Knox Is Innocent

Without rehashing the tired old points for and against AK and RS, the BBC3 piece is particularly notable for:

-Presenting the prosecution's view on the time of the call to the police as fact, when at best it is disputed and in fact is contrary to the reliable evidence independent provided by the garage cctv and mobile phone logs.

-Saying that luminol detects blood, without stating that it also detects many other substances commonly found in a house.

-Failing to disclose the director's historic close links with the prosecutor and the Guilter websites.
 
IHere

The Italian judges who reinstated the guilty verdict against Amanda Knox say she delivered the fatal knife blow to UK student Meredith Kercher.

Explaining their ruling, the judges said Knox and her Italian ex-boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, killed Miss Kercher after a violent argument.

Knox and Sollecito were originally convicted of the murder in 2007.

They were acquitted on appeal in 2011, but that ruling was overturned in January.

Knox, who is currently in the US, was sentenced to 28 years and six months. Her former boyfriend received 25 years.

Both had pleaded not guilty.

'Fought over money'
Explaining its reasoning on Tuesday, the appeals court in Florence said the victim's wounds indicated multiple aggressors.

The judges said they believe both Knox and Sollecito wielded knives, as another man, Rudy Guede, held the victim down and committed a sexual assault.

But it was Knox who "delivered the only mortal blow", striking Meredith Kercher with a kitchen knife, presiding judge Alessandro Nencini concluded.

The prosecution had originally argued that Miss Kercher was killed in sex game that spiralled out of control.

But in its explanation, the appeals court agreed with a later theory that she was killed after a violent quarrel.

It said Knox and Miss Kercher had fought over money on the night of the killing.

In a statement on Tuesday, Knox said the court's reasoning was "not supported by any credible evidence or logic".

Both Knox and Sollecito are expected to appeal against the latest decision.

The trial will now go back to Italy's highest court, the Court of Cassation, which could uphold or overturn the verdict.

If it upholds it, officials are expected to begin the lengthy process to extradite Knox from the US, where she returned on her release from prison in 2011.

Meanwhile, Guede is already serving a 16-year prison sentence after being convicted of Miss Kercher's murder at an earlier trial.
 
With this one, I genuinely didn't know what to think. . . until I read one site which claimed that Knox's clothes were recovered, and there were no traces of blood on them.

Now, I assume that if you stick someone with a blade, and it's fatal, at least some of their blood will get on your clothes. . . so why wasn't there any on Knox's?

As I say, I didn't know what to think, and I still don't, but I'd be interested if anyone has any more details, opinions, or even wild random speculation on this one.
 
With this one, I genuinely didn't know what to think. . . until I read one site which claimed that Knox's clothes were recovered, and there were no traces of blood on them.

Now, I assume that if you stick someone with a blade, and it's fatal, at least some of their blood will get on your clothes. . . so why wasn't there any on Knox's?

As I say, I didn't know what to think, and I still don't, but I'd be interested if anyone has any more details, opinions, or even wild random speculation on this one.
Write out: I must read the thread before replying - one thousand times please.
 
Phil will not be happy.

I don't know enough about the case to comment but one thing I do know is that I never want to be on trial in Italy, the system seems bizarre to say the least.
 
I said earlier on this thread i thought she was guilty - but after reading up on it some more, ill admit to thinking i was wrong.
 
I doubt the US will extradite her anyway. That being said it may limit her holiday options somewhat.
 
Phil will not be happy.

Well I'm not personally invested in this case at all, it just blew up when I was at a loose end so I looked into it a bit. It's pretty open-and-shut once you do that--the record of the prosecutor was sufficient in itself convince me. Basically, he's a raving loony who will never in a million years accept that he might be mistaken. And the entire case is a scarcely-credible farrago of insane injustice. Problem is it could happen to anyone.
 
Well I'm not personally invested in this case at all, it just blew up when I was at a loose end so I looked into it a bit. It's pretty open-and-shut once you do that--the record of the prosecutor was sufficient in itself convince me. Basically, he's a raving loony who will never in a million years accept that he might be mistaken. And the entire case is a scarcely-credible farrago of insane injustice. Problem is it could happen to anyone.

If you're innocent you'll have nothing to fear. How about the no blood on her clothes thing, then, Phil?
 
Funny now there's no mention of witchcraft or satanic rituals in the judgement, despite a certain poster claiming the entire case was based upon such claims.
 
From the wiki:

Myth: The prosecution case was based on the theory of a "satanic ritual"

Not true. This was first claimed by one of Sollecito's defence lawyers, Luca Maori, following Knox and Sollecito's commmittal hearing in October 2008.[7] The hearing was in camera, so we do not know exactly what was said during that hearing, but Giuliano Mignini, the prosecutor, has always denied mentioning a satanic ritual.[8][9] Certainly, the motivation report, written by the judge who conducted that court makes no mention of a satanic ritual as a possible motive.[10] Nor is it mentioned in Judge Massei's motivation report, relating to Knox and Sollecito's trial, so it is beyond doubt that such a motive played absolutely no part in the decision to convict Knox and Sollecito.[11] This myth is so pervasive that it is hard to believe that there is no foundation for it: however, it does not appear in the sentencing reports of any of the courts that have considered this case. It does not even get a passing mention as a prosecution theory that was rejected: it is completely absent.

In September 2013, Mignini wrote a letter to the editor of Florence Corriere, correcting their published mistakes about the prosecution case. Mignini refers to: "the scenario put forward by the prosecution in which the Meredith murder [...] was the consequence of a sex hazing to which Meredith herself did not intend to take part, and, above all, it was the consequence of a climate of hostility which built up progressively between the Coulsdon girl and Amanda because of their different habits, and because of Meredith’s suspicion about alleged money thefts by Knox."[12]
 
Funny now there's no mention of witchcraft or satanic rituals in the judgement, despite a certain poster claiming the entire case was based upon such claims.

"Funny" isn't the word I'd have chosen. I'd have chosen "revealing." The prosecution have changed their story so many times it's impossible to keep them all straight.
 
:D

Knox and Sollecito, on the other hand...

I honestly can't understand why you think they're guilty.

Do you mind if I ask whether you've ever been questioned by the police? Because it seems to me that only someone of virginal innocence with regard to such matters could seriously maintain such a belief.
 
I honestly can't understand why you think they're guilty.

Do you mind if I ask whether you've ever been questioned by the police? Because it seems to me that only someone of virginal innocence with regard to such matters could seriously maintain such a belief.

I haven't undergone an interrogation in a murder enquiry if that's what you're asking...

I think they're guilty because of the weight of evidence against them. I'm not sure if a full English translation of the judge's report will become available any time soon, but I agree with the judge's reasoning as it has been reported.

A couple of interesting paragraphs jumped out at me from this piece:

http://www.theweek.co.uk/news-opinion/58324/amanda-knox-wielded-knife-killed-meredith-says-judge
From the article:

"Moreover, during the course of Knox’s long and drawn out judicial process, Judge Alessandro Nencini claims, serious attempts were made to tamper with evidence in a way that would favour her.

In the scathing report that spells out the evidence, logic and reasoning that led to his guilty verdict in Florence on 30 January, Judge Nencini also says Knox and her defence tried to tamper with evidence and pervert the truth by introducing prisoners as witnesses, whose testimony turned out to be false and induced by “other interests”.

“It is clear how this trial was subject to heavy evidence tampering, both internally (slander) and externally,” Nencini writes.

He calls the media interest in the case “fertile ground” that led a number of witnesses to give misleading testimony in exchange for their moment in the limelight."
 
I haven't undergone an interrogation in a murder enquiry if that's what you're asking...


No it isn't.

I asked if you'd ever been questioned by the police. Because in my opinion it is only possible to believe in Knox's guilt if one assumes that the police acted in an honest and honorable manner throughout, and only someone with no experience in such matters would make such an assumption.

But no need to answer if you don't fancy it.
 
No it isn't.

I asked if you'd ever been questioned by the police. Because in my opinion it is only possible to believe in Knox's guilt if one assumes that the police acted in an honest and honorable manner throughout, and only someone with no experience in such matters would make such an assumption.

But no need to answer if you don't fancy it.

Yes, I've been questioned by the police, although not under caution, and not the Carabinieri or the Italian Police either.
 
Then why do you adduce her statements under interrogation as evidence of her guilt? You must be aware of how easily such statements can be coerced.

Because they are profoundly incriminating!

And the interrogation has been misrepresented by her supporters as some sort of ordeal - it wasn't. Wiki say:

Myth: Amanda Knox's statement was false or coerced after a long interrogation
Not true. Knox's interrogation was at most two hours long, but realistically less than an hour, from 12:30am to 1:30am. Sollecito was called to the police station that night and Knox accompanied him, waiting in the hall with her homework. Sollecito was being asked about some inconsistencies in his earlier statements, causing him to now tell the police he had lied at Knox's request and the truth was they had parted company at 9:00pm and she did not return to his apartment until 1:00am. The police had been intercepting their conversations that week in which they frequently refer to a third person -- while they were unsure of the roles they felt that Knox was at least covering for someone, so when Sollecito said Knox went out, the police seized the opportunity to ask Knox about this.
They telephoned the interpreter at 11:30 to say they would require her services; Anna Donnino arrived at 12:30am. In the meantime Knox was with the police making lists of Meredith's acquaintances, drawing maps, et cetera. Likely Knox was nervous but not as a result of anything the police were doing. When Donnino arrived she was seated next to Knox at a table across from two police officers, who challenged her about her text messages. It was then that she said she was at the cottage and began to accuse Patrick Lumumba.
Because the statement had been prepared, typed and signed by 1:45am, realistically Knox implicated herself and Lumumba within minutes of learning Sollecito had withdrawn her alibi. The text message represented an easy out for Knox, a way to concede what she suspected the police already knew without admitting any wrongdoing. She, Sollecito, and Lumumba were arrested that night. It is frequently suggested that the non-existence of a recording of this interrogation proves it was abusive; in truth, the police officers, the interpreter, and Knox all relate the same sequence of events, Knox herself doing so in a conversation which was recorded.
Knox's own account of that evening, written to her lawyers a few days after the event, is also worth reading (see Amanda Knox's letters to her lawyers). She makes it clear that she and Sollecito arrived at the police station at "around 10:30pm or 11pm" and goes on to describe the things that happened before the formal questioning began, again supporting a considerable elapsed time. Although she was certainly not playing down the unpleasantness of the police questioning, she nevertheless makes absolutely no claim of being denied food, drink or toilet breaks, which are other details that people have added to myth in subsequent retellings.

...So the interrogation has obviously grown in the telling. I'm not sure I see where the coercion comes in. Do you think that Sollecito was also coerced into taking away Knox's alibi?

What would it require to believe in Knox and Sollecito's innocence? Would you have to believe that they had acted in an honest and honourable manner throughout? Because they didn't, they interfered with and misled a murder investigation. Why would innocent people do that? Doesn't make sense to me unless you are positing some kind of grand conspiracy against them.
 
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