Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[caleb]

Here:

Billy Bragg ‏@billybragg

12 Jul​

I'm #HappyToPayYourBenefits because my fellow citizens paid for my benefits while I was learning to write songs

 

[butchersapron]

I sense a targeted PD #payyourbenefitsback campaign coming on.

 

[Firky]

That's what I suggested and was told:

Clint Mansell ‏@iamclintmansell 12 Jul

@Firky @billybragg in fairness,I think Billy's done more than his fair share.

Clint Mansell!

 

[frogwoman]

he singlehandedly reworked the internationale into a rousing english version, thats got to be worth 3 months JSA

/dc

 

[Hocus Eye.]

he singlehandedly reworked the internationale into a rousing english version, thats got to be worth 3 months JSA

/dc

Nonsense he made it sound like the words of a mediocre Methodist hymn. Although the original English version doesn't scan properly it is far better than Bragg's bit of doggerel.

 

[sihhi]

Malcolm Harris as co-editor of this magazine gives the go-ahead to stuff like this

http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/further-materials-toward-a-theory-of-the-hot-babe (NSFW picture)

"Once, only the professional Hot Babe adorned all major media outlets; now social media makes of everyone a Hot Babe, should they be willing. What is private, secret, is not the detail of the life but the disappearance at its core. I mean something that is always in the process of disappearing. That’s what the Hot Babe feels like to touch, although you are not strictly permitted to touch her; it would only be two nothingnesses touching, nothing touching nothing."

"The Hot Babe is not good or rational political praxis, or does not seem to point to any current ideas of good or rational praxis—“organization,” “demands”—yet she is the image of the desire of the object of that praxis, as a class. Looking down on the Hot Babe should give you vertigo: All qualities dissolve in her. In the end it’s you who disappears in the hard blue of her eyes, which are always blue, even if the Hot Babe’s particular eyes are green or brown."

He has a nice roof garden in his building

https://twitter.com/BigMeanInternet/status/356791603983167489

 

[J Ed]

What does any of that actually mean other than 'here's a an explanation couched in post-modernist bullshit for why it's alright to be lecherous'?

 

[sihhi]

What does any of that actually mean other than 'here's a an explanation couched in post-modernist bullshit for why it's alright to be lecherous'?

that everyone who's not postmodernist to see through the advertising properly is sexist?

I don't know really, but let's please remember: "In the end it’s you who disappears in the hard blue of her eyes, which are always blue, even if the Hot Babe’s particular eyes are green or brown."

 

[Delroy Booth]

What does any of that actually mean other than 'here's a an explanation couched in post-modernist bullshit for why it's alright to be lecherous'?

here's more hipster-porn disguised as art. "Use Value" courtesy of Sugarape Vice

NSFW obviously

http://www.vice.com/read/use-value-000800-v20n7

Page 3 for the hipster left. Terry Richardson with pseudo-marxist pretensions.

 

[J Ed]

I don't know really, but let's please remember: "In the end it’s you who disappears in the hard blue of her eyes, which are always blue, even if the Hot Babe’s particular eyes are green or brown."

Is that post-modernist for 'she wants it really' or something equally stupid?

This Malcolm Harris idiot is the worst of the lot.

 

[sihhi]

here's more hipster-porn disguised as art. "Use Value" courtesy of Sugarape Vice

NSFW obviously

http://www.vice.com/read/use-value-000800-v20n7

Page 3 for the hipster left. Terry Richardson with pseudo-marxist pretensions.

Good lord, is that Kim Gordon who helped form Sonic Youth from US socialist punk influences?

 

[Delroy Booth]

Good lord, is that Kim Gordon who helped form Sonic Youth from US socialist punk influences?

I dunno but well spotted.

Sonic Youth were shit fuck generation X.

 

[sihhi]

I dunno but well spotted.

Sonic Youth were shit fuck generation X.

They were socialist or anarchist, whereas Nirvana were nihilist and empty.

This is Sonic Youth's record label http://www.protest-records.com - clear in intent.

I think it is her, googling gives us that apparently Richard Kern is a film-maker photographer and did a number of photoshoots of her and videos for Sonic Youth.

 

[Firky]

Sonic Youth were shit.

*jukebox stops and barstools slide back*

They're great!

 

[Fozzie Bear]

They were socialist or anarchist, whereas Nirvana were nihilist and empty.

This is Sonic Youth's record label http://www.protest-records.com - clear in intent.

I think it is her, googling gives us that apparently Richard Kern is a film-maker photographer and did a number of photoshoots of her and videos for Sonic Youth.

Kern was a "transgressive" film maker and photographer in NYC in the early eighties who worked with a lot of similar music types at the time (Lydia Lunch, Foetus, Sonic Youth, etc). I've not clicked on the Vice link but he has being doing "hipster porn" for about 30 years so it shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[sihhi]

Advice for the rest of us as recommended by LP:

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/357149485119442946

http://sunnydrake.wordpress.com/2013/07/14/racism-is-to-white-people-as-wind-is-to-the-sky


LP doesn't do this, nor should you:

"When I have failed to take the time to consider how I could make sure people of colour and Indigenous people are central in the decision making of groups I’m a part of."

"When I have spent more time reading white people’s opinions on racism than people of colour’s and Indigenous people’s opinions and lived experiences."

"When I have gotten acquaintances who are people of colour confused with each other. It doesn’t matter that I also frequently can’t recognise white people who I don’t know very well – this is where context matters. In the context of a racist world that makes invisible and dehumanises people of colour, my actions are racist."

The whole blog post is over 2,250 words about from this middle-class performance artist.

 

[xslavearcx]

jeezo....

 

[J Ed]

"When I have failed to take the time to consider how I could make sure people of colour and Indigenous people are central in the decision making of groups I’m a part of."

lol the second bit could be taken from the BNP manifesto

 

[xslavearcx]

From the first comment:

Thanks for making this post. I’m going to share it on my facebook wall and twitter.

wonder how long we'll find that posted on the annoying facebook posts thread

 

[Limerick Red]

Advice for the rest of us as recommended by LP:

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/357149485119442946

http://sunnydrake.wordpress.com/2013/07/14/racism-is-to-white-people-as-wind-is-to-the-sky


LP doesn't do this, nor should you:

"When I have failed to take the time to consider how I could make sure people of colour and Indigenous people are central in the decision making of groups I’m a part of."

"When I have spent more time reading white people’s opinions on racism than people of colour’s and Indigenous people’s opinions and lived experiences."

"When I have gotten acquaintances who are people of colour confused with each other. It doesn’t matter that I also frequently can’t recognise white people who I don’t know very well – this is where context matters. In the context of a racist world that makes invisible and dehumanises people of colour, my actions are racist."

The whole blog post is over 2,250 words about from this middle-class performance artist.

This is unbelievable, this shite winds me up so much, Its just more fuckin cultural imperialism/colonialism from the middle class of imperialist countries, Its Their job, Their place, Their right to make space for colonialised people, because the oppressed person is so fucking meek, so inarticulate, so unable to stand up for themselves that they need to be facilitated by middle class fuckin twats. And because of the world constantly revolving around these cunts they will never ever see it.

 

[xslavearcx]

so unable to stand up for themselves that they need to be facilitated by middle class fuckin twats.

To be fair, hes pretty upfront about it:
"Sunny has over 15 years professional experience in the arts and community sectors, as a consultant, educator, facilitator, strategic planner and project manager and has run over 250 workshops."

http://sunnydrake.wordpress.com/about/

patronising prick...

 

[Firky]

This is unbelievable, this shite winds me up so much, Its just more fuckin cultural imperialism/colonialism from the middle class of imperialist countries, Its Their job, Their place, Their right to make space for colonialised people, because the oppressed person is so fucking meek, so inarticulate, so unable to stand up for themselves that they need to be facilitated by middle class fuckin twats. And because of the world constantly revolving around these cunts they will never ever see it.

Well said.

 

[frogwoman]

yeah, i made this exact point earlier up the thread, it's like they think everyone else is whales that has to be saved.

 

[sihhi]

Dearie us it links to that presentation again




Presumably for Britain everyone white is born belonging.
Those born in India who send kids to private schools like Ann Leslie and Joanna Lumley, and those born with their mother in a shackled custodial birth - all just belong.
By contrast no one nonwhite no matter how rich the family, how large the family ties or how developed any nonwhite-white bonds can belong.

 

[xslavearcx]

every one of those 250 workshops that Suny has facilitated will be another valuable input into the old CV. I wonder if there is parity between 'outcomes' gained from those workshops vis-a-vis himself and the service users. I suspect not...

 

[frogwoman]

Which is the flipside of what the far-right say. "No black in the union jack" and all that shit.

 

[Sue]

I must be really thick because whenever I see these kind of things (like that see-saw picture), I really have no idea what they're on about. Like the external heteronormal genitals or whatever it was upthread. Or is this just a sign that I need to 'check my privilege'? (something I'm also slightly confused about.)

 

[xslavearcx]

I must be really thick because whenever I see these kind of things (like that see-saw picture), I really have no idea what they're on about. Like the external heteronormal genitals or whatever it was upthread. Or is this just a sign that I need to 'check my privilege'? (something I'm also slightly confused about.)

me neither.

 

[frogwoman]

Advice for the rest of us as recommended by LP:

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/357149485119442946

http://sunnydrake.wordpress.com/2013/07/14/racism-is-to-white-people-as-wind-is-to-the-sky


LP doesn't do this, nor should you:

"When I have failed to take the time to consider how I could make sure people of colour and Indigenous people are central in the decision making of groups I’m a part of."

"When I have spent more time reading white people’s opinions on racism than people of colour’s and Indigenous people’s opinions and lived experiences."

"When I have gotten acquaintances who are people of colour confused with each other. It doesn’t matter that I also frequently can’t recognise white people who I don’t know very well – this is where context matters. In the context of a racist world that makes invisible and dehumanises people of colour, my actions are racist."

The whole blog post is over 2,250 words about from this middle-class performance artist.

As a white person who has experienced racism and I've spent a good deal of my life involved in anti-fash stuff in one form or another, I find that fucking insulting tbh.

And plenty of white English people who aren't from any "minority" religious/ethnic backgrounds do experience racism based on their skin colour. It does not happen often but it happens.

 

[frogwoman]

Also it assumes that the only racism that matters is the one based on skin colour. What about Catholics v Protestants in Northern Ireland? Or people not being served in pubs because they "look like pikeys"? Where are these fools intersectional analyses of that?