cesare
shady's dreams ♥
You're safer here at the moment, btw. We say things like "I suppose that means I've got to swiftly atone for centuries of male oppression *trudges off to put kettle on* and everyone falls about laughing.
Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags
- Thread starter Prince Rhyus
- Start date
- Status
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
cynicaleconomy, I have removed the public photo as you requested - although love detective's point stands and others have given a link with other faces I don't think they are doing anything wrong.
I posted earlier that physical attacks against feminists by men's rights or backlash forces in this country are close to non-existent - their tactics are goading and raising to prominence 'miscarriages of justice against men'. More importantly, the writing was against a managerial NUS officer mindset not a cursing anti-women one. So I did not see any evidence of danger (I still don't, but I take your word).
On the wider points that have come up:
I posted earlier that physical attacks against feminists by men's rights or backlash forces in this country are close to non-existent - their tactics are goading and raising to prominence 'miscarriages of justice against men'. More importantly, the writing was against a managerial NUS officer mindset not a cursing anti-women one. So I did not see any evidence of danger (I still don't, but I take your word).
On the wider points that have come up:
- The NUS with fixed positions/non-recallable year-long management committee, which in practical terms is open only to those with most time, social capital, resources inevitably means non-immigrant middle-class figures dominating it (ie under-representation compared to the student body as a whole). The NUS's liberation campaign system is a liberal way to correct its (liberal-caused) structural failings.
- Even on its own terms, however, it throws up difficulties as to how people who are
- of mixed immigrant and non-immigrant heritage, with the non-immigrant side bearing over their life history
- simply 'white' but immigrant > fit in in the NUS structure.
- Since "issues about all that sort of stuff are part of the black section", and the black section has a middle-class softly-racialised approach the working-class immigrant white or predominantly white (apologies, but no other way of putting it) is between two funny doors. [The NUS Black (for any and all self-definers) Section re-elected leader Aaron Kiely is, after all, already a Labour councillor with a general softly-racialised approach - black parts of society are underprivileged compared to white.]
- Sections and caucuses can lead to immigrants from wholly immigrant backgrounds resenting middle-class domination that often is also mixed heritage. The dynamic behind them - asserting heritage identity over class identity - inevitable in order to iron out issues and orientations - can unfortunately lead to further resentment and tensions on a heritage basis. (Also, the intention to assert quotas for the non-privileged, in all fields, can become the sole drive.)
earlier quoted dual heritage mixed race LSE student at the NUS Black Liberation Conference discussing Lee Jasper said:
- Liberal middle-class immigrant means to advance working-class immigrant concerns are actually ineffective. So you can get concern/suspicion about dual heritage middle-class figures dominating the 'sections', which is counter-acted by stressing the black aspect. This concern/suspicion is there beneath the surface in all sorts of places/ways:
- There in the subcontinent origin mosque and kuran school-based organisations (the official Asian organisations are full of mixed or out-marrying liberals who don't advance true Muslim interests), there in some of the more tough Sikh gurdwara associations, this feeling that dual heritage are taking over the field. Dual heritage who have the supposed advantages and connections from the non-immigrant side, and hence do not experience what other immigrants do, hence a twisted form of attacking "white parent" privilege or "marriage to a white" privilege.
- What you also get as butchersapron mentioned about Lozells is resentment politics between different immigrant (or variously heritaged) people. It is only because the country is still mostly white that these media-amplified resentments from whites (the housing goes to immigrant families) (immigrants don't worry about their kids getting mugged here, so work like robots undercutting us here) an be perceived as blanket "white privilege" and its corollary "white tears".
- My guess is there is probably resentment politics (formalised or not) in all sorts of fractures and fissures, intersectionality-based counter-acting quotas, privilege stacks and 'schemes for minorities' will not overcome it. Each such scheme is a trade off: minimal advantage in equalising circumstances within the population as a whole (overcoming prejudices about 'immigrants can't do X') versus specifically enhancing the middle-class of the immigrant population at the expense of the working-class immigrant population.
- Unless we are careful as (immigrant and non-immigrant) w/c populations, NUS quotas and reserved positions can act as a means by which middle-class people of all colours help racialises otherwise class-based issues. Class-based reality is very stark in both further and higher education and training, and access to both, yet the reality of resistance beyond tokenism and sponsored mobility is on the whole absent.
- Racialisation of class based issues has been going on a while - particularly with constant racial (and non-class based) statistics with respect to health, education, housing and 'public service outcomes'.
- Some - either liberals or SWP - at the helm of UCU's FE section in South East and London regions have - over the years - demobilised trade union struggle on the grounds that (racially) discriminatory management decisions can be overturned by court cases or DDA or REA. The racial aspect is sometimes won with minor modifications but the class aspect is lost. Perhaps now with some experience cuts and restructurings are designed and brought in carefully so as not to infringe 'equal opportunities' but to be just as deadly (in overall class terms).
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Oftrot need to be a real thing. 'Insufficient tenuous connections to 1917 in your literature describing modern class struggles' Nil points
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
This is where all the politics could end - as in USA - the annual White Privilege Conference - 14 years running going still going strong - around the USA. It costs $435 for an individual, where if you are a non-white American you get to learn:
in response to:
It's all part of an odd sounding "CONSORTIUM OF EQUITY CONFERENCES"
featuring
$12 a day university parking:
You can buy a water bottle for $13:
or a cap for $10:
and lots and lots of T-shirts:
For $99 you can buy DVDs which feature white people agonising over how hard it was having black servants growing up and not being able to be too close to them:
and find out how to do anti-racism properly such as posting these on trees:
Note: working-class people not having enough money to shop is a diversion tactic.
If you are too poor to attend there's always a scholarship to try and win:
The first step to "be prepared to find success"
in response to:
It's all part of an odd sounding "CONSORTIUM OF EQUITY CONFERENCES"
featuring
$12 a day university parking:
You can buy a water bottle for $13:
or a cap for $10:
and lots and lots of T-shirts:
For $99 you can buy DVDs which feature white people agonising over how hard it was having black servants growing up and not being able to be too close to them:
and find out how to do anti-racism properly such as posting these on trees:
Note: working-class people not having enough money to shop is a diversion tactic.
If you are too poor to attend there's always a scholarship to try and win:
The first step to "be prepared to find success"
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
a months rent
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
You get academic credit sort of like the US version of coursework for going if you are a student depending on your course and age.
If you are a uni student it costs a more manageable $265.
You are encouraged to give money towards the scholarships.
Here's the radical kickstarter pyramid:
coley
Well-Known Member
And for all that the emperor gets some new clothes.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Sorry that's not a radical kickstarter pyramid, but this might be:
They hosted Amanda Palmer's kickstarter rewards, usually do this kind of thing apparently:
That's "Meet me in Paris - clandestine cabaret" by "Gemini & Scorpio: weekly offbeat NYC events list & one-of-a-kind parties"
This is their "Swing House Party":
"Gemini and Scorpio parties are now running 10 year strong, always themed, always costumed, always fun. Swing House is a particular one, with it's vintage and speakeasy style, with live band and artist performances throughout the night. The Blue Vipers of Brooklyn - a 5 man acoustic band - delivered a solid amount of old-time jazz, blues and early soul, and they were accompanied by Pandora - the Greek Godess of Burlesque - delivering a joyful performance that perfectly fit the vibe of the place. To the amusement of beginners and experts alike, the show was preceded with a swing dance class, so that all could break their moves to the sound of the live entertainment. The crowd did not disappoint and came well prepared - dressed chic and with style that was maybe in contrast to the gloom location of an old warehouse, but hey! It's prohibition time - and underground - once again!"
From here (warning some photos NSFW)
Wasn't Pandora the first human woman like the ancient Greek version of Eve?
Anyway here's a sample of what you get if you help them carry on their subvervise time-shifting social centre/warehouse:
Ha ha.
They hosted Amanda Palmer's kickstarter rewards, usually do this kind of thing apparently:
That's "Meet me in Paris - clandestine cabaret" by "Gemini & Scorpio: weekly offbeat NYC events list & one-of-a-kind parties"
This is their "Swing House Party":
"Gemini and Scorpio parties are now running 10 year strong, always themed, always costumed, always fun. Swing House is a particular one, with it's vintage and speakeasy style, with live band and artist performances throughout the night. The Blue Vipers of Brooklyn - a 5 man acoustic band - delivered a solid amount of old-time jazz, blues and early soul, and they were accompanied by Pandora - the Greek Godess of Burlesque - delivering a joyful performance that perfectly fit the vibe of the place. To the amusement of beginners and experts alike, the show was preceded with a swing dance class, so that all could break their moves to the sound of the live entertainment. The crowd did not disappoint and came well prepared - dressed chic and with style that was maybe in contrast to the gloom location of an old warehouse, but hey! It's prohibition time - and underground - once again!"
From here (warning some photos NSFW)
Wasn't Pandora the first human woman like the ancient Greek version of Eve?
Anyway here's a sample of what you get if you help them carry on their subvervise time-shifting social centre/warehouse:
Ha ha.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
cynicaleconomy, I have removed the public photo as you requested - although love detective's point stands and others have given a link with other faces I don't think they are doing anything wrong.
I posted earlier that physical attacks against feminists by men's rights or backlash forces in this country are close to non-existent - their tactics are goading and raising to prominence 'miscarriages of justice against men'. More importantly, the writing was against a managerial NUS officer mindset not a cursing anti-women one. So I did not see any evidence of danger (I still don't, but I take your word).
On the wider points that have come up:
- The NUS with fixed positions/non-recallable year-long management committee, which in practical terms is open only to those with most time, social capital, resources inevitably means non-immigrant middle-class figures dominating it (ie under-representation compared to the student body as a whole). The NUS's liberation campaign system is a liberal way to correct its (liberal-caused) structural failings.
- Even on its own terms, however, it throws up difficulties as to how people who are
- of mixed immigrant and non-immigrant heritage, with the non-immigrant side bearing over their life history
- simply 'white' but immigrant > fit in in the NUS structure.
- Since "issues about all that sort of stuff are part of the black section", and the black section has a middle-class softly-racialised approach the working-class immigrant white or predominantly white (apologies, but no other way of putting it) is between two funny doors. [The NUS Black (for any and all self-definers) Section re-elected leader Aaron Kiely is, after all, already a Labour councillor with a general softly-racialised approach - black parts of society are underprivileged compared to white.]
For instance:
- Sections and caucuses can lead to immigrants from wholly immigrant backgrounds resenting middle-class domination that often is also mixed heritage. The dynamic behind them - asserting heritage identity over class identity - inevitable in order to iron out issues and orientations - can unfortunately lead to further resentment and tensions on a heritage basis. (Also, the intention to assert quotas for the non-privileged, in all fields, can become the sole drive.)
- Liberal middle-class immigrant means to advance working-class immigrant concerns are actually ineffective. So you can get concern/suspicion about dual heritage middle-class figures dominating the 'sections', which is counter-acted by stressing the black aspect. This concern/suspicion is there beneath the surface in all sorts of places/ways:
Warning on this link- quite a tough British Chinese nationalist perspective on the issue:
- There in the subcontinent origin mosque and kuran school-based organisations (the official Asian organisations are full of mixed or out-marrying liberals who don't advance true Muslim interests), there in some of the more tough Sikh gurdwara associations, this feeling that dual heritage are taking over the field. Dual heritage who have the supposed advantages and connections from the non-immigrant side, and hence do not experience what other immigrants do, hence a twisted form of attacking "white parent" privilege or "marriage to a white" privilege.
- What you also get as butchersapron mentioned about Lozells is resentment politics between different immigrant (or variously heritaged) people. It is only because the country is still mostly white that these media-amplified resentments from whites (the housing goes to immigrant families) (immigrants don't worry about their kids getting mugged here, so work like robots undercutting us here) an be perceived as blanket "white privilege" and its corollary "white tears".
- My guess is there is probably resentment politics (formalised or not) in all sorts of fractures and fissures, intersectionality-based counter-acting quotas, privilege stacks and 'schemes for minorities' will not overcome it. Each such scheme is a trade off: minimal advantage in equalising circumstances within the population as a whole (overcoming prejudices about 'immigrants can't do X') versus specifically enhancing the middle-class of the immigrant population at the expense of the working-class immigrant population.
- Unless we are careful as (immigrant and non-immigrant) w/c populations, NUS quotas and reserved positions can act as a means by which middle-class people of all colours help racialises otherwise class-based issues. Class-based reality is very stark in both further and higher education and training, and access to both, yet the reality of resistance beyond tokenism and sponsored mobility is on the whole absent.
- Racialisation of class based issues has been going on a while - particularly with constant racial (and non-class based) statistics with respect to health, education, housing and 'public service outcomes'.
- Some - either liberals or SWP - at the helm of UCU's FE section in South East and London regions have - over the years - demobilised trade union struggle on the grounds that (racially) discriminatory management decisions can be overturned by court cases or DDA or REA. The racial aspect is sometimes won with minor modifications but the class aspect is lost. Perhaps now with some experience cuts and restructurings are designed and brought in carefully so as not to infringe 'equal opportunities' but to be just as deadly (in overall class terms).
Thank you. Good post, btw.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Wow. So people get to buy an automatic pass on part of their degree by attending these things? What goes on at these conferences that is considered equivalent to doing actual coursework?
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
It gets funding from all sorts of institutions so that price is probably quite cheap, to essentially promote the message that:
and hence white Americans should listen to black and new immigrant Americans
Its T-shirts aren't as good as the fashion lines
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Presumably they write up on the experience.
It's just for
Women’s and Ethnic Studies, Education: Curriculum and Instruction for undergraduates
and Sociology, or Education: Curriculum and Instruction for postgraduates, as the link points out.
For clarity - that poster is a different campaign funded by different nonprofits in Duluth, Minnesota - part of the 'and that's unfair campaign'
which also did stuff like:
Notice that half the stuff is giving funding to, by hiring for talks/events, other anti-racism professionals/nannies.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
So apparently this exists... http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/14/1120168/-Race-Sex-and-BDSM-On-Plantation-Retreats-Where-Black-People-Go-to-Serve-Their-White-Masters
Human beings are fucking weird.
Human beings are fucking weird.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Just seen this on Twitter. It's off topic, in so far as there is a topic, but it's a follow on from something a dozen pages ago. Here's a picture, apparently of the most recent edition of the London Student. The London Student is the ULU paper and has been the focus of a bitter internal row. This article attacks the ULU Vice President for giving money to a sinister, erm, "racist" "cult"... The AWL.
http://i.imgur.com/1JxzgEN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1JxzgEN.jpg
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
why is there a shabbat dinner?
It's your lot. AGAIN. Tsk.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Yeah just struck me as weird because in the UK that would never happen, ever, except at a religious thing for my lot (or proddy christians that like to adopt that sort of thing as well)
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
while having wolfe tones piped into his eyeballs regularly
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
- Status
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