I dowt you could frankly.
Only Delbert has the clowt to throw me owt.
And he doesn't seem to be abowt.
Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags
- Thread starter Prince Rhyus
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I dowt you could frankly.
Only Delbert has the clowt to throw me owt.
And he doesn't seem to be abowt.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
For the bullshitters, at least.
Thing is, the people who pull this identity politics bullshit, they're from the same class as the professional politicians and bureaucrats who work so hard to try to prevent the formation of a cohesive working class identity. That may seem paranoid, I know, but I do tend to see IPers as part of the problem, not the solution, IYSWIM.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
thing is i can understand why it might become attractive to people who are put off by the traditional left and how some of them use "identity politics" as an excuse to not do anything about sexism, racism within its ranks etc
sihhi made a few good posts about this a while back in the thread when i made a similar point
sihhi made a few good posts about this a while back in the thread when i made a similar point
Tom A
Goat among sheep
You don't mean to say... that all this pushing of identity politics... is just part of a conspiracy to... divide and rule???
Tom A
Goat among sheep
I found it quite attractive (particularly regarding disabled people's identity politics) for a while, after knowing all too well how the left in general can be oblivious to the situations faced by those whom don't have the Privilege Grand Slam of white, hetero, English-speaking, British passport eligible, able-bodied, cis-maleness. This wasn't helped by a long running resentment at how some in the left were happy to downplay LGBT and women's rights in order to cosy up to reactionary Islamist groups which they wanted to be a part of their "united front".
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You don't mean to say... that all this pushing of identity politics... is just part of a conspiracy to... divide and rule???
More "maintain the status quo through 'divide and rule' and other devices", but essentially, yes.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
I hit this "grand slam" of privilege (and my passport is perfectly legible, probably because it has no stamps as I have never been able to afford to go abroad).
It strikes me that this whole shit is totally Tory. If with all my privilege, I am still living in a rented shithole, on minimum wage in a part time job, then IT MUST BE MY OWN FAULT! Whilst Laurie and her pals have overcome all that oppression I have been putting on them and succeeded through their own hard work.
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
Aye, since I came across it it's always struck me as peculiarly Thatcherite in a "no such thing as society, it's all about individuals" way. Fans of it - and their relationship with the idea does make the word apposite, as far as I can tell - will tell you how it brings people together but I dunno how, unless it's just to compare hardships (without bothering with much of the reasons such privileges/non-privileges impacts people in different ways).
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
You don't mean to say... that all this pushing of identity politics... is just part of a conspiracy to... divide and rule???
The other part of this is strength. This constant battering/visual reminder of a "kickback" aspect to the emergence of identity politics in the 80s, can be exhausting because in order to fight it [I will be against this thing] or ignore it [despite onslaught] there's no relaxation and it's very draining. The other downside is that when you are weakened by this drip drip drip fight/ignore you are susceptible to finding strength in your own identity - your strongest place. And so the cycle continues.
Tom A
Goat among sheep
People say identity politics started in the 80s, but wasn't it more like the 60s, with the civil rights movement in the US, and the emergence of the LGBT rights movement after the Stonewall riots?
Also about identity politics being individualistic, to me it seems to promote a herd mentality within a group - dictating what is deemed oppressive and what is not, and anyone whom tries to respond to being called out by saying "I know an [member of oppressed group] which doesn't find it oppressive" will have their comment dismissed as "derailing".
Also about identity politics being individualistic, to me it seems to promote a herd mentality within a group - dictating what is deemed oppressive and what is not, and anyone whom tries to respond to being called out by saying "I know an [member of oppressed group] which doesn't find it oppressive" will have their comment dismissed as "derailing".
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Also I think some of the trot groups make an "identity" for their members which becomes as much part of it as the politics is. I'm not saying this is good or bad btw.
Tom A
Goat among sheep
I was never that much of a fan of Trotskyism (the politicos I usually associated myself at my uni were generally wannabe lifestyle anarchists), but after university I made a huge effort to distance myself from political stuff, since it *had* become pretty much my identity, and I was always known by people on campus as that "crazy leftie guy". I wanted people to see me as something much more than my politics, so I had to dismantle a lot of what had been considered my life for the past four years. I have only gradually gotten back into it as I have ended up having to defend myself from very real threats to my quality of life, but even now I want there to be more to my life than politics.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
a ruinous drug habit maybe?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
TruXta
tired
Am I? Lose the leftie student uniform then.
TruXta thınks Doc Martıns was an Amerıcan cıvıl rıghts leader.
Let's not dısabuse hım just yet.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
I clicked Phil's link and NOPED right on out of there. I guess it would be overoptimistic to hope for fuck-all Foucault?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Heh, nıce try but no prıze for you.
You'll have to be content wıth Owt and Abowt, Delbert's guıde to ramblıng on the Yorkshıre moors.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Oh the praties they grow small over here,
Oh the praties they grow small over here.
Oh the praties they grow small,
And we ate 'em skin an' all,
And they're better than Foucault, over here.
rekil
to menny cranks
https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/337203477568692224
"Oh so you're a racist."
I haven't read it. Is it as bad as people say?
"Oh so you're a racist."
I haven't read it. Is it as bad as people say?
gwan jools 
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
"Re-reading" is such a hipster gameplay as well, isn't it?
"Oh that? Yeah, I read it years ago."
"Oh that? Yeah, I read it years ago."
Delbert Booth's Saudade
There are more of owt than you think.
The best minds of my generation consumed by craving furious half naked starving for owt .
Who had a band that's about the size of Half Man Half Biscuit but no bigger coz then you sell owt and that matters.
Who have no moral problem with deferring to women or owt.
Who really give a fuck about that deeply exclusionary mentality reflected in the dense jargon and call-owt culture.
Who was doing something just big enough to be good just marginal enough to be owt. The sweet-spot. Like.
Who was really really stupid looking at a picture of someone and going jumping to the conclusion they're owt.
Who don't get people going "Oh my god you socialists literally want to owt people" when you say owt the rich.
Who was likely to walk away thinking something like that is a literal endorsement of owt and that's something that a lot of people feminists included judging by many.
Who failed so dismally at producing any tangible political owt.
Who slammed down the tray of drinks and tore off owt aprons and went scowling owt into the streets.
Who stripped in dark rooms because we wanted owt and were told we were nowt.
Who bared owt breasts to hidden cameras and fought and fought and fought. And fought.
Who literally waited in grim alleys with Half Man Half Owt literally snarling over the speaker system.
Who crossed the road alone withowt books bare lımbs clear-eyed vision running running walking staggering tripping falling crashing owt waking up in a pool of vomit from the homes that held our kittens down.
Who filled notebooks with gibberish philosophy and craps of stories to prove we weren't even keeping owt novels close to owt hearts.
Who refused refused refused refused refused refused refused refused refused refused to be owt.
Who never amounted to owt.
Who were punished for it and spat owt and snarled.
Sara, I'm with you in all intersectional networks who was so owt of vogue at the time of the student movement.
Lara, I'm with you in ill thought owt pseudo-anarchist platitudes.
Lila, I'm with you in oligarchical tendencies emerged owt of the horizontal networks and who benefitted from them and why.
Andy, I'm with you in laughing at the primark scum who don't get the lingo or owt.
Adele, I'm with you owt of the closet.
Katie, I'm with you abowt taking everyone who wears hats or glasses owt to the football stadium and shooting them.
Tara, I'm with you owt of my head.
Alex, I'm with you and a daft meme was meant to be an allegory for even a trace of owt.
We are always owt.
There are more of us than you owt.
There are more of owt than you think.
The best minds of my generation consumed by craving furious half naked starving for owt .
Who had a band that's about the size of Half Man Half Biscuit but no bigger coz then you sell owt and that matters.
Who have no moral problem with deferring to women or owt.
Who really give a fuck about that deeply exclusionary mentality reflected in the dense jargon and call-owt culture.
Who was doing something just big enough to be good just marginal enough to be owt. The sweet-spot. Like.
Who was really really stupid looking at a picture of someone and going jumping to the conclusion they're owt.
Who don't get people going "Oh my god you socialists literally want to owt people" when you say owt the rich.
Who was likely to walk away thinking something like that is a literal endorsement of owt and that's something that a lot of people feminists included judging by many.
Who failed so dismally at producing any tangible political owt.
Who slammed down the tray of drinks and tore off owt aprons and went scowling owt into the streets.
Who stripped in dark rooms because we wanted owt and were told we were nowt.
Who bared owt breasts to hidden cameras and fought and fought and fought. And fought.
Who literally waited in grim alleys with Half Man Half Owt literally snarling over the speaker system.
Who crossed the road alone withowt books bare lımbs clear-eyed vision running running walking staggering tripping falling crashing owt waking up in a pool of vomit from the homes that held our kittens down.
Who filled notebooks with gibberish philosophy and craps of stories to prove we weren't even keeping owt novels close to owt hearts.
Who refused refused refused refused refused refused refused refused refused refused to be owt.
Who never amounted to owt.
Who were punished for it and spat owt and snarled.
Sara, I'm with you in all intersectional networks who was so owt of vogue at the time of the student movement.
Lara, I'm with you in ill thought owt pseudo-anarchist platitudes.
Lila, I'm with you in oligarchical tendencies emerged owt of the horizontal networks and who benefitted from them and why.
Andy, I'm with you in laughing at the primark scum who don't get the lingo or owt.
Adele, I'm with you owt of the closet.
Katie, I'm with you abowt taking everyone who wears hats or glasses owt to the football stadium and shooting them.
Tara, I'm with you owt of my head.
Alex, I'm with you and a daft meme was meant to be an allegory for even a trace of owt.
We are always owt.
There are more of us than you owt.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
*applause* well done dwyer.
that's a post i never thought i'd make
that's a post i never thought i'd make
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
my girlfriend rates it, she hasn't mentioned anything about racism and she's pretty heavy on that sort of thing. i have emailed her to accuse her of racism. i will let you know what she says.
JimW
支那暗杀团
An indispensable part of any truly loving relationship.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
It's here, definitely of its time written in 1968-9, published in 1970, hard to follow the exact argument, relies on some stereotypes to tear down other stereotypes wants to prove "racism is a sexual phenomenon" and that "racism is sexism extended". Of course soon after, black women's liberation movement sought to prove that sexism was racism extended. It's not racism to like reading it though, most of it (including ch6) is not about race.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Wait till she re-reads the paedo bits.
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