Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[sihhi]

Thinking back to my one experience with Occupy an early morning picket of building sites for national pay agreements to be honoured - and I got told off as encouraging racism by someone younger than me because I used the phrase third world to describe changes. bit my lip nothing happened not scarred - racism is worse than incorrect accusations of racism - sure.

If we agree that privilege analysis is incorrect - how can it be challenged without it being turned into 'aha, you're privileged (unchecked, natch) so it's self-interested for you to be against privilege theory/progressive stack'.

Everything can get personalised - and every person probably has a privilege weakness/vulnerability which can be exploited - it can all be pinned on that.
There's always someone worse off than you - that's entirely correct because things can be seen in many ways there will always be people who are less privileged and hence 'you're trying to stop privilege analysis to protect your meagre privilege, stop supporting capitalism by being such a 1960s oaf and talking about class primacy, it all matters... no anti-racism without ableism, no class struggle without anti-homophobia, no anti-ageism without feminism.' (to many will sound like 'i'm checking my privileges and you can too, just accept the privilege analysis, take it in, there's a good boy/girl'

Perhaps it can't be challenged on an individual argument level. One person's opposition is too easily batted away. Am I going crazy even thinking this through?

 

[Casually Red]

IT'S 2013!

and what...its not hipster enough

 

[DrRingDing]

and what...its not hipster enough

 

[sihhi]

very nasty, lots of grandstanding about who is more oppressed and personal attacks.

Here's what confuses people too if a non-oppressed group people do not attend events about promoting 'oppressed group' members that's a sign of privilege but when they do and do talk there that can also be seen as privilege - should white women attend or not - surely they shouldn't it's about black women but white women are allowed but not black male students so there must be an expectation for white women to attend particularly with the answering FAQs point at sec4.
Should there also be an event for black intersectionality but for black students as a whole?

EVENT DESCRIPTION
STUDENT BLACK INTERSECTIONALITY WORKSHOP

Student Black Intersectionality Workshop
Date: Saturday 27 April 2013
Time: 10:30am - 6pm
Location: C27 Portland Building, University of Nottingham

Student Black Intersectionality Workshop
Workshop on engaging Black women in all their diversity too (religious, cultural, sexual and gender identities) within the NUS Women's Campaign and also within wider NUS.

*This meeting is for self-defining women only.*
(Clarification: ALL women are welcome... You don't have to define as Black to attend.)

• Introduction and ice-breaker
30 minutes
• Session 1: What is intersectionality?
1 hour Defining intersectionality and what it means to us personally.
• Session 2: Why is there so much under representation of Black women within the student movement?
1 hour
• Session 3: Sharing best practice
2 hours
• Session 4: FAQ’s and anonymous questions
1 hour Answering questions that Black women get asked a lot of particularly within activist circles, what it perpetuates and how they feel about it.
• What we’ve learnt and resolves
30 minutes

 

[Casually Red]

Thinking back to my one experience with Occupy an early morning picket of building sites for national pay agreements to be honoured - and I got told off as encouraging racism by someone younger than me because I used the phrase third world to describe changes. bit my lip nothing happened not scarred - racism is worse than incorrect accusations of racism - sure......

Perhaps it can't be challenged on an individual argument level. One person's opposition is too easily batted away. Am I going crazy even thinking this through?

Anti Hipster Action

 

[sihhi]

Here's what confuses people too if a non-oppressed group people do not attend events about promoting 'oppressed group' members that's a sign of privilege but when they do and do talk there that can also be seen as privilege - should white women attend or not - surely they shouldn't it's about black women but white women are allowed but not black male students so there must be an expectation for white women to attend particularly with the answering FAQs point at sec4.
Should there also be an event for black intersectionality but for black students as a whole?

I sound like an arse even writing the questions.

 

[DrRingDing]

Anti Hipster Action

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...better-than-you-say-researchers-2013021259405

 

[Casually Red]

At my uni there is a bizarre identity politics war going on over a proposal to create another permanent salaried position for a black students officer, with proponents of the proposal accusing anyone who asks questions about the proposal of racism. Oddly, most of the people who are opposing have displayed very similar behaviour towards those who were against any of their proposals (gender quotas for elections, for example). It's almost like a microcosm of the Helen Lewis nonsense.

Very nasty, lots of grandstanding about who is more oppressed and personal attacks.

Funny how the claws only come out on issues like this, when things like a living wage for workers at the university are discussed there is very little interest in spending a fraction of the time and passion on that.

i once foolishly considered getting involved in left wing student politics only to find out they were campaigning to ban marlboro lights from the cigarette machine on the basis of a very odd theory they had links to the Ku Klux Klan . I changed not only my mind but my cigarette brand and started smoking Marlboro.

 

[DrRingDing]

i once foolishly considered getting involved in left wing student politics only to find out they were campaigning to ban marlboro lights from the cigarette machine on the basis of a very odd theory they had links to the Ku Klux Klan . I changed not only my mind but my cigarette brand and started smoking Marlboro.

You was a student when there was Marlboro Lights? I assumed you were in your 50s.

 

[Belushi]

i once foolishly considered getting involved in left wing student politics only to find out they were campaigning to ban marlboro lights from the cigarette machine on the basis of a very odd theory they had links to the Ku Klux Klan

The three K's on the packet?

 

[Casually Red]

The three K's on the packet?

yup, they were cracking up about it

 

[lazythursday]

I remember some stuff about boycotting Marlboro from my student days - but it was to do with their links to some anti-gay stuff, not the Ku Klux Klan. Though I think the K motif was sometimes mentioned, in a sort of pre-internet conspiraloonery way.

 

[Casually Red]

I remember some stuff about boycotting Marlboro from my student days - but it was to do with their links to some anti-gay stuff, not the Ku Klux Klan. Though I think the K motif was sometimes mentioned, in a sort of pre-internet conspiraloonery way.

they probably got confused with god hates fags or something

i never even bothered going to the meeting once i heard the banning the smokes KKK bit. Could well have been more detail but life was too short . Specially for a smoker .

 

[sihhi]

There are tumblr blogs

Here's the latest popular one I'm having difficulty with is this a blog that should be fairly interesting (nothing about class and anti-unionisation or brand promotion and linking capitalist firms with public charity - but fun nonetheless) then interrupted by stuff like

http://yourfaveisproblematic.tumblr.com/post/48619152929/nicki-minaj

#SUICIDE TRIVIALIZATION

• “And definitely [with] suicide you’re giving up and I don’t promote giving up. I promote fighting and winning.”
• “Haters you can kill yourself” in song “Check it Out”

Is this really oppressive to depression sufferers and ableist suicide trivialization?

Then you get http://yourfaveisproblematic.tumblr...as-a-person-of-color-i-find-not-only-the-term

As a ‘person of color’, I find not only the term offensive, but am super offended when it is written as poc/POC. You’re very concerned with how ‘people of color’ are represented, their cultures, etc, but can’t be bother to write out three words, seems sort of hypocritical.

I will definitely take this into consideration. I do know that some people do not like the term, but I don’t know of any other term that is generally considered not offensive and is created by the people it represents. I will endeavor to at the least write it out more often. I had just seem it written that way so often, especially by people of color themselves so I figure it was harmless shorthand.

So 'of colour' is offensive, but others say it isn't.

 

[Casually Red]

Then you get http://yourfaveisproblematic.tumblr...as-a-person-of-color-i-find-not-only-the-term

As a ‘person of color’, I find not only the term offensive, but am super offended when it is written as poc/POC. You’re very concerned with how ‘people of color’ are represented, their cultures, etc, but can’t be bother to write out three words, seems sort of hypocritical.

I will definitely take this into consideration. I do know that some people do not like the term, but I don’t know of any other term that is generally considered not offensive and is created by the people it represents. I will endeavor to at the least write it out more often. I had just seem it written that way so often, especially by people of color themselves so I figure it was harmless shorthand.

So 'of colour' is offensive, but others say it isn't.

despite whatever lack of privilege there may be im quite sure there are POCs who are just as capable of being wankers as well. Anyone super offended by a politically correct abbreviation coming from someone who most definitely isnt racist is probably just a wanker, god knows what theyd feel like if they met an actual race hate merchant . And wankers are generally best ignored regardless of pigmentation . Neither ethnicity or sexuality should entitle anyone to a wankers permit . Nobody should be super offended by anyone who patently isnt trying to be offensive .
Some people just want a license to be a dick and willl use any opportunity to make someone else feel small .

 

[Nigel Irritable]

So 'of colour' is offensive, but others say it isn't.

There's a particular issue with that term where "coloured" is considered an offensive description. Although, obviously that particular person is talking about something else.

 

[tufty79]

I wonder what Seeds Of Change who have done some very good work on democratising meetings, etc think of all that?

i tried to get them involved in mediating a (cough) radical mental self-help group a few years ago.

they don't do mental health, apparently

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

What's radical mental self-help when its at home?

 

[tufty79]

What's radical mental self-help when its at home?

based on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icarus_Project
i was a little bit when i was involved with them. i was young and trusting, what can i say?

 

[cesare]

Did you hear there was a (rare) strike today across Sweden? It lasted for 50 minutes, then a deal was signed in which the companies promised to "consult with2 the union over agency staff

50 minutes! No, I hadn't heard. When you say across Sweden, do you mean a general strike?

 

[Random]

50 minutes! No, I hadn't heard. When you say across Sweden, do you mean a general strike?

No, I just meant it wasn't a local strike. It was the freight transport union that shut down a few depots and the employers were ready for a lock out later in the day.

 

[cesare]

No, I just meant it wasn't a local strike. It was the freight transport union that shut down a few depots and the employers were ready for a lock out later in the day.

Ah right. Effective to have only lasted 50 minutes though. I hadn't realised, btw, that it was the 1909 gen strike that resulted in this consensus model.

 

[Random]

I don't see that it was effective. The union had previously refused to sign a collective agreement saying they wanted higher than 6.8 percent over three years and wanted a block on temp agencies. After 50 minutes they settled for 6.8... and being "consulted" on temp agencies. Unions in Sweden seem to be deathly scared of strikes.

 

[cesare]

I don't see that it was effective. The union had previously refused to sign a collective agreement saying they wanted higher than 6.8 percent over three years and wanted a block on temp agencies. After 50 minutes they settled for 6.8... and being "consulted" on temp agencies. Unions in Sweden seem to be deathly scared of strikes.

Oh, I thought you meant that they got what they wanted within 50 minutes once they'd done the unthinkable - actually striking. They either folded or reached a very swift consensus then, depending on your point of view.

 

[rekil]

Not a peep out of soi-disant feminist Laura about the garment workers in Bangladesh but thanks to her twitter I now know that her porn friend is on the front of Village Voice which reveals that she (stoya) wears a mink coat and smokes lots of fags.

Maybe this is a little bit feminisn't or a lot misogyny but it's almost as if she can't even be bothered to pretend to be interested in working class women's struggles at home or abroad.

 

[love detective]

And meanwhile all her followers offer support, money and solidarity, not to those impacted by the tragedy in Bangladesh, but to Penny herself who has once again been pickpocketed in New York and will thus be 'poor for a few weeks'

Laurie Penny, 23, never imagined she would find herself enmeshed in a world of poverty (for a couple of weeks)

 

[articul8]

And meanwhile all her followers offer support, money and solidarity, not to those impacted by the tragedy in Bangladesh, but to Penny herself who has once again been pickpocketed in New York and will thus be 'poor for a few weeks'

really? She seems remarkably unlucky as far as these bag/phone/iPad stealing incidents go

 

[Red Cat]

Perhaps it can't be challenged on an individual argument level. One person's opposition is too easily batted away. Am I going crazy even thinking this through?

No, there are a few students involved in the Birmingham anti-cuts groups, so the culture isn't limited to student politics. The first big meeting I went to this year proposed choosing women to speak first in preference to men. But then the majority of people at the last one I went to also voted that it was ok for a bunch of men to wear v for vendetta masks in a public meeting...

I find it all a bit...unnerving. I find it interesting that so many on here find it creepy because that was my response too, visceral rather than intellectual. Can't quite put my finger on it though.

 

[love detective]

really? She seems remarkably unlucky as far as these bag/phone/iPad stealing incidents go

Yep indeed

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
16h
Got robbed in New York again. Lost 140 quid in dollars. Bloody problematic. I needed that.

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
15h
Thanks for the concern. I'm ok, I didn't see it happen, just going to be poor for a few weeks. Rubbish. I think I must have a robbable face.

 

[Idris2002]

White line fever?