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Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

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Oh you just wait 'til the rest of the alumni start circling the wagons. This is nowt

They'll all drop their political differences when it comes to sticking up for their mates. The Daily Telegraph rushing to the defense of Laurie Penny? She'll be editing it within a decade.
 
I would like to get Laurie back on here to answer everyone's questions. I think she could learn a fair bit if she does that and I dare say there's a thing or two I and others on here can learn from her. But she's never going to do that while people are defending that cartoon. I agree that it wasn't a genuine threat of violence and that Firky didn't intend to intimidate her but I also think it's plausible, considering the crap she gets from the right and the fact that she doesn't know the kind of character Firky is, that she honestly took it to be so.

I'd quite like to get her back on here to answer some of the questions put to her but she's not going to do that if it doesn't look like people are being fair with her.
 
I can't remember Dave making any complaints about this image, which actually does have her face on it and is quite obviously a piss-take from Sabcat, who I suspect are not run off their feet printing Penny Red T-shirts. Despite providing a mugshot of Laurie for every wannabe attacker and potential sexist abuser, there have been no complaints from her. Does she think that this is a loving tribute to her work, or is there no political mileage for her in complaining about this one?

penny330.png


Laurie Penny Red T-Shirt

From: £14.50
DESCRIPTION

Laurie Penny goes to protests, she can get the internet on her phone and she tells us what the police are doing. She once called someone a cunt and because she’s a keen stamp collector her twitter username is @pennyred and now just like Che everyone’s going to be wearing a Laurie Penny T-shirt.
http://sabcat.com/product/laurie-penny-red-t-shirt/
 
SpineyNorman said:
I would like to get Laurie back on here to answer everyone's questions. I think she could learn a fair bit if she does that and I dare say there's a thing or two I and others on here can learn from her. But she's never going to do that while people are defending that cartoon. I agree that it wasn't a genuine threat of violence and that Firky didn't intend to intimidate her but I also think it's plausible, considering the crap she gets from the right and the fact that she doesn't know the kind of character Firky is, that she honestly took it to be so.

I'd quite like to get her back on here to answer some of the questions put to her but she's not going to do that if it doesn't look like people are being fair with her.
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She's not gonna do that fair or no fair, it's just not how she works. She knows she can't bullshit her way out of the stuff that's been collated here, so why bother? There's nothing in it for her being here.
 
framed said:
I think her reaction to the cartoon was calculated, I don't believe for a moment that she felt threatened or intimidated by us. That is borne out, to an extent, by the fact that she came here and engaged in discussion after, and largely a a result of, the offending image being posted.
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I can't say this isn't a possibility, or even that it's not likely. I just reckon that stuff like this can get on top of people pretty easily over time,and her immediate reaction to the cartoon could go like that imo without it being calculated, and for whatever reason I'm tending to give her the benefit of the doubt over that, partly just cos I think it's a bit out of order to tell anyone what you want for christmas is them to be beaten up unless you know they are going to know it's a joke.
 
Delroy Booth said:
Take saying "I work for a living" as your initial reaction to seeing this, well, if you're still lurking Laurie, i'm unemployed at the moment, and what fucking of it?


How do you expect a young unemployed person, y'know one of those people you've built a career claiming to speak for, to take that comment?


I didn't come from a family who could subsidise me living in London whilst I interned my way around the place for years on end. Those options were never on the table for me.


Perhaps I should be working at the New Statesman on the work programme for nowt, would that be more to your liking?


You can see the real public-school upbringing shine through there. Soon as a bit of criticism is applied, the pretence of radicalism drops Penny reverts back to being a sneering snob.
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Down to brass tacks.
 
el-ahrairah said:
to be honest, if you read a few of her articles and look at the comments attached, there's a lot of it sees to be because she is a) a lefty,and b) an woman talking about sexism . And there's a lot of really unpleasant stuff that i've seen that i think justifies her paranoia a little bit.
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Okay, it's par for the course that prominent (even self-promoted) people on the left would receive threats and abuse from the usual suspects, but can any of the abuse and threats be attributed as a direct result of any words or images posted on this board or thread?
 
SpineyNorman said:
I would like to get Laurie back on here to answer everyone's questions. I think she could learn a fair bit if she does that and I dare say there's a thing or two I and others on here can learn from her. But she's never going to do that while people are defending that cartoon. I agree that it wasn't a genuine threat of violence and that Firky didn't intend to intimidate her but I also think it's plausible, considering the crap she gets from the right and the fact that she doesn't know the kind of character Firky is, that she honestly took it to be so.

I'd quite like to get her back on here to answer some of the questions put to her but she's not going to do that if it doesn't look like people are being fair with her.
Click to expand...

Put yourself in her shoes, with her motivations. What does she have to gain by coming back? Nothing. She's already seen as the oppressed underdog in this little spat, and she has right-wing columnists falling over themselves to support her. She doesn't give a shit about class politics, which is all anyone here wants to 'educate' her in. She's obsessed with identity politics, which a lot of people here would like her to tone down. She's totally sorted. Exactly where she wants to be. Coming here can only harm her (in her eyes).
 
poului said:
If you were doing even half a decent job as a left-wing commentator then people like Daniel Finkelstein would loathe every inch of your being. Jesus wept.
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I seem to recall a similarly nauseating display of backslapping when she was up against The Mensch formally known as Bagshawe on Newsnight. Absolutely no edge at all.
 
SpineyNorman said:
I would like to get Laurie back on here to answer everyone's questions. I think she could learn a fair bit if she does that and I dare say there's a thing or two I and others on here can learn from her. But she's never going to do that while people are defending that cartoon. I agree that it wasn't a genuine threat of violence and that Firky didn't intend to intimidate her but I also think it's plausible, considering the crap she gets from the right and the fact that she doesn't know the kind of character Firky is, that she honestly took it to be so.

I'd quite like to get her back on here to answer some of the questions put to her but she's not going to do that if it doesn't look like people are being fair with her.
Click to expand...

Personally I don't give a damn whether she comes back or not.

But, if she has any genuine commitment to left-wing politics/protest/radicalism then it is in her interests to do so. She has a lot to learn, and the collective experience here dwarfs anything else she has been exposed to.

As for being fair? Well I agree there are plenty of posts here that are, at best, in poor taste. At worst both offensive and counter-productive. But so what? They don't go unchallenged, and they certainly don't represent the consensus or the main themes of the debate.

If she wants to be either a successful journo or an effective protester she needs to toughen the fuck up frankly. There's real violence and hate out there in real life, and sadly plenty directed at people like her (or at least people like who she seems to aspire to be).

But that's all for her to decide.
 
Fez909 said:
Put yourself in her shoes, with her motivations. What does she have to gain by coming back? Nothing. She's already seen as the oppressed underdog in this little spat, and she has right-wing columnists falling over themselves to support her. She doesn't give a shit about class politics, which is all anyone here wants to 'educate' her in. She's obsessed with identity politics, which a lot of people here would like her to tone down. She's totally sorted. Exactly where she wants to be. Coming here can only harm her (in her eyes).
Click to expand...

And if she wants to prove you wrong, if she wants to show that she's more concerned about what genuine grass roots activists with genuinely impressive political CVs think about her than right wing columnists, then she knows what she needs to do doesn't she?
 
SpineyNorman said:
And if she wants to prove you wrong, if she wants to show that she's more concerned about what genuine grass roots activists with genuinely impressive political CVs think about her than right wing columnists, then she knows what she needs to do doesn't she?
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You mean write another column for the NS?
 
framed said:
Okay, it's par for the course that prominent (even self-promoted) people on the left would receive threats and abuse from the usual suspects, but can any of the abuse and threats be attributed as a direct result of any words or images posted on this board or thread?
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not that i'm aware of. i hope none of our posters are right-wing women-hating rape advocates.
 
although there is the argument that such piss-taking creates a culture in which the right-wing women-hating rape advocate feels more powerful, believing that if everyone on the left hates her then their behaviour won't be challenged. given urban's legendary tolerance for right-wing women-hating rape advocates i think that argument can be safely put to bed now.
 
el-ahrairah said:
not that i'm aware of. i hope none of our posters are right-wing women-hating rape advocates.
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Which is exactly my point about her overreaction to the cartoon that appeared here. Everything she does is calculated imho. The cartoon has incited nothing against her, but it did give her a convenient point around which to rally support on her Twitter and Facebook accounts and even managed to elicit the sympathy of a right-wing commentator who mentioned the cartoon but not its source in the Telegraph.

The 'offensive cartoon' is simply another means by which Laurie can promote herself...
 
TruXta said:
She's not gonna do that fair or no fair, it's just not how she works. She knows she can't bullshit her way out of the stuff that's been collated here, so why bother? There's nothing in it for her being here.
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Maybe you're wrong and maybe she can prove you wrong by coming back on here and answering some of those questions. The ball's in her court isn't it? Does she want to side with right wing journalists or does she want to side with the working class activists who're supposed to be on the same side?
 
SpineyNorman said:
And if she wants to prove you wrong, if she wants to show that she's more concerned about what genuine grass roots activists with genuinely impressive political CVs think about her than right wing columnists, then she knows what she needs to do doesn't she?
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I think she can't, even if she wanted to. She's too invested in what she's already said (I almost said achieved and then realised that's how she'd frame her writing: as achievements :facepalm: ). If you get to be '55th most influential person on the left', you can't suddenly say, "I was wrong. I went on a message board and talked to some people and I realised I wasn't speaking for the people I claimed I was representing." The about-face would be damaging enough, but the admission that her whole political career so far has been built on rubbish? She just couldn't do it.
 
SpineyNorman said:
Maybe you're wrong and maybe she can prove you wrong by coming back on here and answering some of those questions. The ball's in her court isn't it? Does she want to side with right wing journalists or does she want to side with the working class activists who're supposed to be on the same side?
Click to expand...
Ball's in her court but it's obvious she's not playing ball anymore.
 
LP said:
Why is it that thinkers on left and right seem happy to be called 'sexist' - but when 'racism' is mentioned they explode + threaten to sue?
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Has this tweet been picked up? Thread is moving so fast I can't keep up.
 
Fez909 said:
Yeah, but I think she can't, even if she wanted to. She's too invested in what she's already said (I almost said achieved and then realised that's how she'd frame her writing: as achievements :facepalm: ). If you get to be '55th most influential person on the left', you can't suddenly say, "I was wrong. I went on a message board and talked to some people and I realised I wasn't speaking for the people I claimed I was representing." The about-face would be damaging enough, but the admission that her whole political career so far has been built on rubbish? She just couldn't do it.
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That looks like a challenge to me.
 
Fez909 said:
Yeah, but I think she can't, even if she wanted to. She's too invested in what she's already said (I almost said achieved and then realised that's how she'd frame her writing: as achievements :facepalm: ). If you get to be '55th most influential person on the left', you can't suddenly say, "I was wrong. I went on a message board and talked to some people and I realised I wasn't speaking for the people I claimed I was representing." The about-face would be damaging enough, but the admission that her whole political career so far has been built on rubbish? She just couldn't do it.
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I'm curious as to who exactly she is supposed to be an influence upon? It isn't anyone I've ever met.
 
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