JimW
支那暗杀团
"What I'm after, Jocasta, is less your "yummy mummy' and more your 'snoggable Smoggie', yah?"
Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags
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lauriepenny
Member
In case you're all wondering, here's the letter I just sent in response to 'SpineyNorman' (I didn't want to reprint his letter without permission but I'm sure he can post it if he feels it's necessary.'
****
Hi there,
I must say, I find the tone of this email extremely different from the accusatory, jeering words you've flung at me in the past. It's surprising to me.
You say that you're angry about being called racist. Here are just some of the things you've said about me on Twitter this week:
'apropriating others oppression to ur own ends.'
'political naif'
"weak"
You've participated in a thread that contains, alongside ugly misogyny and threats of violence, the worst kinds of professional slander - that I lie, that I fabricate quotes and stories, that I bought my way into a job I don't deserve - none of which are remotely true. This sort of accusation has a real effect on my ability to do my job. You've encouraged and supported people who have written these things and perpetuated these lies. You seem so emotionally affected and full of rage about the way I reacted to your comments - perhaps that might give you some insight into how I feel every single day when I have to read these lies about me embedded in jeering sexist bullying. And then to have one of the bullies respond with legal threats, demands for attention and apology, when I react with anger, when I call out their unexamined privilege? That's bitterly ironic.
When you started trashing 'identity politics' and retweeted an article that contains, to my mind, the worst sort of left-flavoured unexamined white male privilege (the writer and I are actually engaged in a productive email discussion right now, he admits that some of what he said was wrong) I'm afraid I just lost my cool. I have no idea if you are, in your heart, a racist or a sexist - I'm sure you're a good person. It's actually interesting to know more about your life. All I had to go on before was a picture of Stalin and a Twitter feed full of hate. Now I feel I know you a bit more as an individual. Before you were just one of what looked like a faceless mass of haters spreading lies and threats.
Of course, I know that's not true - probably every one of you is an individual with your own history, your own challenges and secret hurts and triumphs, you've done campaigning work you're rightly proud of, you're a human being with a story. But heres the thing - so am I. You and everyone else on that thread have not treated me as such. Now you're asking that I behave in an empathetic way towards you, when your behaviour towards me has been the absolute opposite. You're asking that I treat you with politeness, respect and humanity, and sensitivity towards how a particular statement might affect your work, when you've shown me the opposite.
Like I say, I've got no idea if you're racist or sexist. I'm sure in your heart you are neither of these things. I have no way of knowing whether what you say about your years of anti-fascist work are true, but I have no reason to disbelieve you.
On the other hand, I think the way you've all collectively behaved on the urban75 thread is stunningly sexist, as well as racist in its blanket writing-off of 'identity politics'. I think your reaction to the issue of identity politics on Twitter was slightly racist. So yes, I apologise for accusing you, rather than your behaviour. I should have said 'that's a bit racist, maybe you want to think about that' rather than 'you are a racist.' I'm sure you'll agree that even those of us who work tirelessly for equality can sometimes make mistakes. I have, certainly, And if we're unable to call out those mistakes without freaking out and summoning the bloody lawyers, that's surely bad news for the left.
My calling out, however, was poorly phrased. When I wrote those tweets, I was angry, hurt, felt threatened and frightened. Perhaps this exchange will give you some insight into why I might have felt that way. I'm happy to clarify my response to your tweets on Twitter, but not because of your legal threats. You didn't need to threaten me to get me to apologise. All you needed to do, and this is very, very important, was treat me like a human being.
So here's what I propose: you give me a number I can call you on on the phone or a Skype account we can chat over (sorry, I'm unwilling to give out my private number in this situation), we arrange a time to talk, and we sit down wherever we are in the world and have a conversation - about our lives, about our politics, about what we can learn from each other and from this exchange. When that's done I'm more than happy to offer a retraction, if it's appropriate, and I'm sure it will be.
I look forward to hearing back from you,
Laurie.
****
Hi there,
I must say, I find the tone of this email extremely different from the accusatory, jeering words you've flung at me in the past. It's surprising to me.
You say that you're angry about being called racist. Here are just some of the things you've said about me on Twitter this week:
'apropriating others oppression to ur own ends.'
'political naif'
"weak"
You've participated in a thread that contains, alongside ugly misogyny and threats of violence, the worst kinds of professional slander - that I lie, that I fabricate quotes and stories, that I bought my way into a job I don't deserve - none of which are remotely true. This sort of accusation has a real effect on my ability to do my job. You've encouraged and supported people who have written these things and perpetuated these lies. You seem so emotionally affected and full of rage about the way I reacted to your comments - perhaps that might give you some insight into how I feel every single day when I have to read these lies about me embedded in jeering sexist bullying. And then to have one of the bullies respond with legal threats, demands for attention and apology, when I react with anger, when I call out their unexamined privilege? That's bitterly ironic.
When you started trashing 'identity politics' and retweeted an article that contains, to my mind, the worst sort of left-flavoured unexamined white male privilege (the writer and I are actually engaged in a productive email discussion right now, he admits that some of what he said was wrong) I'm afraid I just lost my cool. I have no idea if you are, in your heart, a racist or a sexist - I'm sure you're a good person. It's actually interesting to know more about your life. All I had to go on before was a picture of Stalin and a Twitter feed full of hate. Now I feel I know you a bit more as an individual. Before you were just one of what looked like a faceless mass of haters spreading lies and threats.
Of course, I know that's not true - probably every one of you is an individual with your own history, your own challenges and secret hurts and triumphs, you've done campaigning work you're rightly proud of, you're a human being with a story. But heres the thing - so am I. You and everyone else on that thread have not treated me as such. Now you're asking that I behave in an empathetic way towards you, when your behaviour towards me has been the absolute opposite. You're asking that I treat you with politeness, respect and humanity, and sensitivity towards how a particular statement might affect your work, when you've shown me the opposite.
Like I say, I've got no idea if you're racist or sexist. I'm sure in your heart you are neither of these things. I have no way of knowing whether what you say about your years of anti-fascist work are true, but I have no reason to disbelieve you.
On the other hand, I think the way you've all collectively behaved on the urban75 thread is stunningly sexist, as well as racist in its blanket writing-off of 'identity politics'. I think your reaction to the issue of identity politics on Twitter was slightly racist. So yes, I apologise for accusing you, rather than your behaviour. I should have said 'that's a bit racist, maybe you want to think about that' rather than 'you are a racist.' I'm sure you'll agree that even those of us who work tirelessly for equality can sometimes make mistakes. I have, certainly, And if we're unable to call out those mistakes without freaking out and summoning the bloody lawyers, that's surely bad news for the left.
My calling out, however, was poorly phrased. When I wrote those tweets, I was angry, hurt, felt threatened and frightened. Perhaps this exchange will give you some insight into why I might have felt that way. I'm happy to clarify my response to your tweets on Twitter, but not because of your legal threats. You didn't need to threaten me to get me to apologise. All you needed to do, and this is very, very important, was treat me like a human being.
So here's what I propose: you give me a number I can call you on on the phone or a Skype account we can chat over (sorry, I'm unwilling to give out my private number in this situation), we arrange a time to talk, and we sit down wherever we are in the world and have a conversation - about our lives, about our politics, about what we can learn from each other and from this exchange. When that's done I'm more than happy to offer a retraction, if it's appropriate, and I'm sure it will be.
I look forward to hearing back from you,
Laurie.
radgiesteve
Always the bridemaid
Are you gonna gen up on the history of the IWCA? Gaping hole in your knowledge of anti-fascism at street and community level that. Pity.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
lauriepenny
Member
No, no chance at all- because I've addressed those issues already, in forums that aren't full of slander, misogyny, violent cartoons and disgusting personal abuse.
Where abouts you from...specifically?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I don't use twitter because it's full of slander, misogyny, violent cartoons and disgusting personal abuse.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
That's between her and Spiney, I'd have thought.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Shame. As I said above it really is your loss.
BTW If you think it's rough here, try living in the world the rest of us have to live in.
Well yeah, he gets first dibs maybe. But he wasn't the only one she slandered iyswim.
And to be fair...I'm a bit pissed off being told I've written something sexist. Wouldn't that make me a misogynist more or less?
Do you have to be here a long time to earn the actual misogynist tag?
Do you have to be here a long time to earn the actual misogynist tag?
JimW
支那暗杀团
We very much have, it's been what sort of story yours is that's been the topic - the salient aspect for our purposes its illustration of the reproduction of class and its attendant privileges and how pernicious that is. Or do you not think so?
radgiesteve
Always the bridemaid
this thread appears correct in its criticisms of the blessed martyr after all
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
OK, can we talk about internships and Sarah Sands at the Evening Standard, They had a campaign against internships but they use interns for all kinds of admin.
Is it OK to address these questions to you in person after your revolutionary actions from the Commune to today talk for the Ralph Miliband programme at the LSE?
How many stripes do you wear, or is it plain clothes nowadays?
Can't tell you. I'm special branch...no I was just asking. I'm in that neck of the woods myself.
Close to the River Tees. Which is what it means specifically to the North East. So a bit pointless arguing something Southern about it.
Where abouts?
radgiesteve
Always the bridemaid
there's no such thing
He'd have to get permission to post first.
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