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Al Qaeda a myth says Russian

Pickman's model said:
when did you determine that the official line on wmd was economical with the truth?


Call it a hunch, but would you always tend to trust the official channels of a Government in conflict? My experience would suggest that it would be foolish to - propaganda has always been used to support the government line ime.

The methods of propaganda may be more subtle and possibly underhand than in the past, but that would seem to reflect the far greater complexity of today's media landscape. I'd also argue that the methods of media control are far less effective than in the past too - can you honestly see today's youth falling for WW1 propaganda or toeing the patriotic 'duty for your country' line without complaint so easily?
 
editor said:
Not really, but I guess I'll just have to take your word that you supposedly sent off this email.
Yes you will have to take my word - not that it makes a blind bit of difference to me. Even if I had kept the original email, posting it here is not proof of it either being sent or delivered so I would have expected you to have replied with the same level of doubt.

editor said:
I would have thought that that anyone seriously trying to establish the facts of the matter would keep a copy of their own correspondence as a matter of course - after all, how else will you know if they've accurately addressed your points later?

Have they sent you a receipt of your mail yet? What address did you send it to?
It's a pretty simple question - I have faith in my own memory that I can remember the single point I raised.

It was sent to the only general contact email address I could find on the NIST site (inquiries@nist.gov) as well as the acting director Hratch G. Semerjian (director@nist.gov). If you have any more contact details, please feel free to post them here and I'll happily write another email to all of them.

And no I have no receipt yet.
 
Jangla said:
Yes you will have to take my word - not that it makes a blind bit of difference to me. Even if I had kept the original email, posting it here is not proof of it either being sent or delivered so I would have expected you to have replied with the same level of doubt.
It just seems mighty strange that you were keen enough to write to a government agency, but not bothered enough to click the 'keep copy' option in hotmail and keep your original correspondence for reference.

PS: their contact page is absolutely stuffed full of email contacts. It's linked from every page on the site as one of just four major links in the nav bar.
 
editor said:
It just seems mighty strange that you were keen enough to write to a government agency, but not bothered enough to click the 'keep copy' option in hotmail and keep your original correspondence for reference.
doesn't seem that strange to me; i don't think i've ever kept a copy of a sent email before, whether it's trivial stuff or more important stuff like job enquiries and such. I find 90% of the time the reply you get includes your original email anyway.
 
neilh said:
doesn't seem that strange to me; i don't think i've ever kept a copy of a sent email before, whether it's trivial stuff or more important stuff like job enquiries and such. I find 90% of the time the reply you get includes your original email anyway.
Remind me to never hire you as a researcher then!

Relying on people to requote your original mail sure seems an odd way to go about investigating what some are suggesting is some sort of colossal cover up.
 
editor said:
It just seems mighty strange that you were keen enough to write to a government agency, but not bothered enough to click the 'keep copy' option in hotmail and keep your original correspondence for reference.
Why is it "mighty strange"?! It's not like I purposely avoided keeping a copy to pervert the process or anything - I just didn't keep a copy. Simple as.

editor said:
PS: their contact page is absolutely stuffed full of email contacts. It's linked from every page on the site as one of just four major links in the nav bar.
Correct - that's how I found the one for the director. Most of them are useless for this line of enquiry. Thanks anyway though.
 
editor said:
DrJazzz said:
FridgeMagnet said:
There is no necessity to provide an alternative theory in order to challenge an existing one.
Do you agree with this, editor?
Not when it's a load of fruitloops repeating the same evidence-free, barking shite from bonkers websites with zero credibility, no.

But then I don't think that's what FM meant anyway.
So let's get this straight:

to challenge a theory, in some cases one need not provide an alternative theory, but in others you do, and this depends on your personal opinion of whether the theory is true or not?

:rolleyes:

Logic isn't your forte, is it?

:D
 
DrJazzz said:
So let's get this straight:

to challenge a theory, in some cases one need not provide an alternative theory, but in others you do, and this depends on your personal opinion of whether the theory is true or not?

:rolleyes:

Logic isn't your forte, is it?
Compared to someone who went around screaming that the child murdering scumbag Huntley was as pure as the driven snow because some fucking lunatic shithead in Australia told him so, I think you'll find my logic is razor sharp, thanks.
 
Oh, mentioning Huntley again :rolleyes:

That's usually what you do when you are totally desperate for a response, isn't it?

:p :D
 
DrJazzz said:
Oh, mentioning Huntley again :rolleyes:

That's usually what you do when you are totally desperate for a response, isn't it?
Seeing as you were lecturing me on my supposed flawed logic, it seemed a good time to remind you of the kind of places your amazing "logic" leads you.

Oh look! There goes two invisible large passenger aircraft flying "amazingly low" in a dangerous and illegal formation over a population the size of Birmingham in the rush hour! Blimey! They're heading straight for Manhattan!

Logically, how many people do you think would see that noisy and incredible sight?
 
DrJazzz said:
utterly desperate. you are scraping the barrel.
You're the one that decided to attack me for my supposedly flawed logic.

It's not my fault that your own record here lets you down so atrociously badly when it comes to applying logic!
 
Johnny Canuck2 said:
[The only other two people I've ever seen bicker this much, were married to each other...]
Deep down he loves me dearly and spends long nocturnal hours composing love sonnets to me. And they are such beautiful tunes that I can almost feel the attraction becoming mutual.

But then he goes and spoils it all by saying something stupid like:

"I'm looking through your files...
for the invisible missiles..."
 
editor said:
Deep down he loves me dearly and spends long nocturnal hours composing love sonnets to me. And they are such beautiful tunes that I can almost feel the attraction becoming mutual.

But then he goes and spoils it all by saying something stupid like:

"I'm looking through your files...
for the invisible missiles..."

To quote the immortal Bard, Mr. Stewart: Ain't love a bitch?
 
editor said:
Cheer sfor the link, editor.

I think you'd have to admit, it's a rare example - I'd be interested in it's position in the Observer print edition.

What I was getting at, though, was more about the prevailing (present) story being peddled by the BBC and others: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4433709.stm

FridgeMagnet remarked today:
FridgeMagnet said:
That BBC report is a disgrace. It repeatedly gives credence to the idea that they were manufacturing ricin, regardless of the fact that there was no evidence whatsoever for this and apparently they couldn't have even if they had wanted to. "Real and deadly threat" my fucking arsehole.

That's annoyed me now. Is there anyone around to ban?

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=111456
Any thoughts on this? (besides your previous response of referring to me as a 'conspiracy type' and implying that my head is full of 'fantasies of invisible missiles'. :D )
 
editor said:
Deep down he loves me dearly and spends long nocturnal hours composing love sonnets to me. And they are such beautiful tunes that I can almost feel the attraction becoming mutual.

But then he goes and spoils it all by saying something stupid like:

"I'm looking through your files...
for the invisible missiles..."
Hmmm.... well tell you what. How about we do a trial separation? I will promise not to post on your threads if you can do the same. Failing that, how about you just allow me ONE thread which you will steer clear of, and I won't put anything in your direction whatsoever?

:)
 
Backatcha Bandit said:
I think you'd have to admit, it's a rare example - I'd be interested in it's position in the Observer print edition.
If you're that interested, write to them and ask. I'm surprised you didn't find the article in the first place - it hardly took much research.
Backatcha Bandit said:
FridgeMagnet remarked today:
Any thoughts on this?
None at the moment thanks, but I'll be sure to address my thoughts to FM if I feel so inclined to comment on the matter.
 
Backatcha Bandit said:
What I was getting at, though, was more about the prevailing (present) story being peddled by the BBC and others:
Ah. You mean the lack of stories like this one?
The ricin ring that never was

Yesterday's trial collapse has exposed the deception behind attempts to link al-Qaida to a 'poison attack' on London..

Yesterday's verdicts on five defendants and the dropping of charges against four others make clear there was no ricin ring. Nor did the "ricin ring" make or have ricin. Not that the government shared that news with us. Until today, the public record for the past three fear-inducing years has been that ricin was found in the Wood Green flat occupied by some of yesterday's acquitted defendants. It wasn't.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1459096,00.html#article_continue
You're not every good at this research lark, are you?
 
DrJazzz said:
I will promise not to post on your threads if you can do the same. Failing that, how about you just allow me ONE thread which you will steer clear of, and I won't put anything in your direction whatsoever?
Sorry. I don't do "closed" threads.

If you post here, it's open to anyone to comment.
 
Backatcha Bandit said:
What I was getting at, though, was more about the prevailing (present) story being peddled by the BBC and others)
Do you mean 'prevailing' stories being "peddled" by the BBC like this one?
Has the so-called "war on terror" claimed a major success with the conviction of Kamel Bourgass at the Old Bailey ?

Or is this case more notable for the way in which criminal investigations are shamelessly exploited for political purposes by governments in the UK and United States, whether to justify the invasion of Iraq or the introduction of new legislation to restrict civil liberties?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4442479.stm
 
editor said:
Do you mean 'prevailing' stories being "peddled" by the BBC like this one?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4442479.stm

Well, again, that one has just appeared since I started searching.

Also worth noting is that the exact article that prompted FridgeMagnets comments is currently sitting as the lead story (sorry - story ;) ) on the BBC UK Frontpage: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/default.stm

Whereas the link you just posted is the bottom article listed as a 'comment'. So no, that's not really what I'd consider the prevailing message regarding 'ricin'.

I'm damned if I'm actually buying tomorrows Guardian, so I hope that Duncan Campbell piece is near the front.
 
How the BBC manufacture and sustain the myth of Zarqawi

Every single article by the BBC on ‘Zarqawi’ has in fact only one source, the US (or its puppet, the Allawi regime). Typically, the BBC, along with other corporate/state-run media outlets always frame their stories in the following manner:

Yet despite offering a $25m reward for information leading to his capture or death, he remains at large and is thought to have stepped up attacks ahead of elections scheduled to take place in three weeks time. ‘US hails arrest of Iraq militant’, BBC 8 January 2005 [my emph. WB]

Thought by whom? We are not told. In its coverage of the destruction of Fallujah, the BBC uncritically relays US propaganda via ‘embedded?’ journalist Nick Childs when he tells us

Insurgent casualties he [US general Metz] described as significant but acknowledged that many of the leaders – including Abu Musab al-Zarqawi – had probably fled.

Who is Metz acknowledging? A question by Childs? The BBC’s reportage is relentless and consistent in the tried and trusted propaganda method of repeating a statement over and over again until it becomes accepted as a statement of fact. Hence we read in a story dated 8 November 2004

The message, signed “al-Qaeda in Iraq”, was posted on a website known for publishing messages from Islamic militant groups.

No attempt is made to ascertain whether the Website is a genuine source, again we are asked to take it on faith. And in fact, in another piece the BBC accepts that there is no way of substantiating who actually releases these statements. But in the overall scheme of things, this is a piddling detail. What counts is the impression created of a global conspiracy led by a former small-time crook from Jordan who became a paid asset of the CIA in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

In story after story, the existence of ‘Zarqawi’ is not questioned, nor his alleged role in Iraq. Instead the BBC, faithful puppet that it is of the US/UK propaganda machine regurgitates the same story
More...
 
"The vested interests - if we explain the situation by their influence - can only get the public to act as they wish by manipulating public opinion, by playing either upon the public's indifference, confusions, prejudices, pugnacities or fears. And the only way in which the power of the interests can be undermined and their maneuvers defeated is by bringing home to the public the danger of its indifference, the absurdity of its prejudices, or the hollowness of its fears; by showing that it is indifferent to danger where real danger exists; frightened by dangers which are nonexistent." Sir Norman Angell 1872 - 1967
 
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