Al Qaeda a myth says Russian

[FridgeMagnet]

IIRC in The power of nightmares, it stated that Osama Bin Ladan did not use the term Al Quieda untill after 9/11
The US coined the term after the embassy bombings

Ah. That would make sense.

I don't recall that "Bin Laden" and "Al Qaeda" were actually linked to the same degree before 911 as they were after, either. I remember a lot of talk about Bin Laden being a terrible threat to the US etc, but very little about Al Qaeda - in fact I don't think I heard the name once. Perhaps they didn't feel they needed a SPECTRE then.

Oh, and just ignore Rentonite, everyone, you know what he's like.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Rentonite = Troll.

 

[Dr_Evil]

AQ has given the authorities a word-weapon to keep people in a state of fear. It's very convenient that this amorphous concept is at once everywhere and nowhere and can strike at anytime. It's better than the worldwide network of communism that the US claimed existed in the Cold War, that was used to justify American brutality in Indochina and elsewhere.

Whilst i normally am at tangential disagreement with your posts, this time you are spot on! AQ is a control mechanism with which to instill a sense of fear in the great unwashed, and vindicate the authoritarian behaviour of Tony Bliar et al (see terrorism bill etc)

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Whilst i normally am at tangential disagreement with your posts, this time you are spot on! AQ is a control mechanism with which to instill a sense of fear in the great unwashed, and vindicate the authoritarian behaviour of Tony Bliar et al (see terrorism bill etc)

Lawks-a-lawdy, I agree with Dr_Evil. I was beginning to think it would never happen.

$faith_in_human_nature++;

 

[Dr_Evil]

A myth now or when the US invaded Afghanistan to get their UNOCAL pipeline or when they invaded oil-rich Iraq which had nothing to do with 911?

So the fact that AQ killed 3000 people wasnt the reason behind opeartion Afghan freedom?

The proposed Unocal pipeline was supported by the Clinton administration, but Unocal abandoned the pipeline idea in 1998. The new Afghani government has signed a protocol to build a pipeline, but it is an entirely different pipeline, in a location hundreds of miles distant from the Unocal proposal.
Construction has not begun on the new pipeline. A popular liberal/democract myth is that “Enron stood to benefit” from the pipeline, Enron has never had any participation in either pipeline.

Consider your urban myths to have been destroyed

 

[Dr_Evil]

Lawks-a-lawdy, I agree with Dr_Evil. I was beginning to think it would never happen.

$faith_in_human_nature++;

Just shows that whilst i have a right wing view on the world, i still have a healthy distaste for our elected representatives

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Well, that's always encouraging to hear. It's right and proper to distrust every word that comes out of a politician's mouth.

(don't think I'm going easy on you if I think you're talking bollocks, mind)

 

[Dr_Evil]

The term Al Queda didn't exist before 911 I heard that on a documentary a while back.

Afraid it did mate.

I watched it happen live and distinctly remember thinking one thing.

Bin Laden and AQ!

 

[Dr_Evil]

Well, that's always encouraging to hear. It's right and proper to distrust every word that comes out of a politician's mouth.

(don't think I'm going easy on you if I think you're talking bollocks, mind)

I wouldnt say its neccessary to distrust every word of theirs, just take them with a pinch of salt and do some research to find out what is actuallu going on.

And no, i never expected any less from a rabid godless commie!

 

[laptop]

Of course AlQ exists.

Of course it existed before 2001.






Isn't it a guesthouse in Peshawar, bought with CIA money as a staging-point for mujihadeen on their way from the so-called madrassas in Pak to fight the commies in Afghanistan?

That is, "The Base"...

 

[X-77]

So the fact that AQ killed 3000 people wasnt the reason behind opeartion Afghan freedom?

'operation Afghan freedom' - says it all really; as long as you give the 'operation' a name like that, I suppose it's nice and easy for you to digest. Incidentally, how many Afghans were killed in this little 'operation', or doesn't that matter - not as important as Americans, right?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

"Operation Look Like You're Doing Something"

 

[X-77]

Whilst i normally am at tangential disagreement with your posts, this time you are spot on! AQ is a control mechanism with which to instill a sense of fear in the great unwashed, and vindicate the authoritarian behaviour of Tony Bliar et al (see terrorism bill etc)

why can't you be this insightful all the time?

(although what do you mean by the 'great unwashed' ....don't ya just mean instilling fear into the masses )

 

[Dr_Evil]

'operation Afghan freedom' - says it all really; as long as you give the 'operation' a name like that, I suppose it's nice and easy for you to digest. Incidentally, how many Afghans were killed in this little 'operation', or doesn't that matter - not as important as Americans, right?

How many were given the freedom and democratic right to live their lives as they see fit, free from the pervasive influences of the taliban and AQ?

The price was worth it. (granted the spams could do with some more training on how to distinguish freind from foe, but thats a whole other issue!)

 

[Dr_Evil]

why can't you be this insightful all the time?

(although what do you mean by the 'great unwashed' ....don't ya just mean instilling fear into the masses )

It was a play on words to emphasise how the elected elite view the general population and how they treat them. granted there are a number of good MP's but unfortunately they are in the vast minority.

Can you address post 35 please?

 

[Dr_Evil]

"Operation Look Like You're Doing Something"

mmm,

They had to look like they were taking action for the attack on theit homeground. Seen as how AQ and the taliban were based in Afghanistan, it was the logical target.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Logical, certainly. Not of any use or anything, though. All we got were stories about Marines storming Al Qaeda underground bases, which were all balls because there were never any such things at all.

The Yank media has entirely forgotten about Afghanistan now anyway, so it's just the usual routine of warlords, guns and bombs. All they did as far as I can see was shake up the status quo enough that different groups started making grabs for power (oh, and kill a load of people with bombs of course, but then you expect that).

 

[Nemo]

The Yank media has entirely forgotten about Afghanistan now anyway, so it's just the usual routine of warlords, guns and bombs. All they did as far as I can see was shake up the status quo enough that different groups started making grabs for power (oh, and kill a load of people with bombs of course, but then you expect that).

And the postponed elections and puppet rulers.

 

[DogorKat?]

mmm,

They had to look like they were taking action for the attack on theit homeground. Seen as how AQ and the taliban were based in Afghanistan, it was the logical target.

but didn't Rumsfeld want to attack Iraq to begin with after 9/11?

 

[Raisin D'etre]

Soon after 911 Rumsfeld set up the Office of Special Plans its mission was to concoct evidence which would convince Americans that Saddam had links to 911 and that he had wmd. The campaign of the OSP was so successful that most people believed those lies. DR E - Invading Afghanistan had nothing to do with OBL and terrorism, it was about securing the region for American interests and increasing America's access to the region's oil.

 

[CyberRose]

I think most academics have come to the conclusion that al-Qaida doesn't exist, or as I would put it, it is an ideology (not an organisation). As Burke puts it, there is the 'hardcore' but that has been dismantled or at least been scattered by the war in Afghanistan - then there are all those inspired by 11/9 and they form the 'freelancers' which may get funding from the 'hardcore' but most likely do it off their own back.

I think Burke puts it excellently when he says..."you are a member of al-Qaida if you say you are"





ps. the CIA never funded al-Qaida or bin Laden - bin Laden was never a member of the Mujahadeen...

 

[Kid_Eternity]

No, it was certainly in use at the time of the original WTC bombing. I don't know about before that.

It's been around a bit longer than that, Bin Laden used it to refer to a record of finances and resources when he was working for the US (the term Al Qaeda apparently means base and Bin Laden used to have a Record of Al Qaeda).

I recommend reading Terror Inc by Loretta Napoleoni.

Terror Inc

Loretta Napoleoni in interview

And for those of you who can't wait to read the book the following is a good taster:

10 Things You Don't Know About Terrorism

 

[nino_savatte]

Excelllent documentary on BBC4 last night called Why Do We Fight? A lot of the things being discussed here were in the film: the OSP and how the defence establishment runs the country. Forget elected representatives, most of them are in the pay of companies like Lockheed and Raytheon. Apparently Cheney saw the US as the "new Rome" in the wake of the collapse of the Berlin Wall.

 

[X-77]

Can you address post 35 please?

I was just about to but then saw that RD summed it up very well (see post 50) so I don't have to bother now.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Why is it so hard to believe that a bunch of fanatics, extremely pissed off with US foreign policy in the Middle-East, might have organised an attack on the US on its home soil? I don't believe there is an organised world network of terrorists called Al-Q, but I do believe it's more than likely that a group of indoctrinated Saudi fanatics could launch an internal attack on America.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Why is it so hard to believe that a bunch of fanatics, extremely pissed off with US foreign policy in the Middle-East, might have organised an attack on the US on its home soil? I don't believe there is an organised world network of terrorists called Al-Q, but I do believe it's more than likely that a group of indoctrinated Saudi fanatics could launch an internal attack on America.

Who's saying it (definitely) wasn't? This isn't a lizard thread....

 

[goldenecitrone]

All the lizard threads have made me suspect of the real motives of people posting on Al-Q threads. Sorry, continue.

 

[X-77]

Maybe David Icke is behind the Power of Nightmares too?

 

[Rentonite]

Rentonite, do you think Al Quaida exist- as a real, structured orgasnisation I mean?

Are you aware that there is plenty of evidence that they actually don't, but are a fiction? Do you have any evidence that suggests they do exist- and i mean evidence, not just referring to 11/9 as proof.

Yes I do

The reason I said what I did is that those that wish to deny 911 happend or that it was all a Bush conspiricy cannot accept the truth.
they HAVE to remove every component of the justification for the war so they will feel better attacking my country.

It is the same as neonazis denying the holocost.

The truth is Alquedia thought up and pulled off a remarkable attack on my country.
this is after a series of attacks leading up to 911.
then as the war has continued they have attacked our allies and have had some success in scareing away the mild hearted ones

The western world has mostly forgotten how brutal Real War is
The United States has not, nor has some European countrys.

some have.

The old saying; those that forget history are doomed to repeat it is once again comeing true.
It is Incredible to me so many believe that if we stop fighting Alquedia
they will just "go away"

They started this war
WE will end it

There is more than just Alquedia the whole anti American movement
has whipped up so much "thought up" hatred
I think it is echos of the anguish of the fall of communism (in europe) and now since there no longer is a truly evil communists empire to hate those people are useing hatred of America to bond together
it sounds silly but it seems to make sense.

So many here wish to believe 100,000 dead Iraqis.
I just cant buy that number
But to tell you the truth
the United States is not going to let "them" win because too many of the enemys people got killed. so, in the end, the number of deaths are irrelivant.

We will prevail in securing our country.

We get hit big again,
then it is possible (Probable) that the military services of the United States of America will un leash weapons with power the likes of which mankind has never whitnessed.

We will Prevail in secureing our country.

silly little alquedia has pulled off an incredible feat of arms
that is their nature.
they will not stop
and neither will the United States
There is no Question about that, not for the forseeable future.

sorry thats such a hard lump of truth for so many of you.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

If you're not actually going to address the topic of the thread, kindly don't post up reams of irrelevant stuff that you've said before and disturb those of us who are trying to.