Al Qaeda a myth says Russian

[Raisin D'etre]

Leonid Shebarshin ex-chief of the Soviet Foreign Intelligence Service accuses the US of using terrorism as cover for attacking oil-rich Muslim states.l domination.

“The U.S. has usurped the right to attack any part of the globe on the pretext of fighting the terrorist threat,” Shebarshin said.

Referring to his meeting with an unnamed al-Qaeda expert at the Rand Corporation, a nonprofit research organization in the U.S., Shebarshin said: “We have agreed that [al-Qaeda] is not a group but a notion.”

“The fight against that all-mighty ubiquitous myth deliberately linked to Islam is of great advantage for the Americans as it targets the oil-rich Muslim regions.”​

Source

It is not only the US who are using this as a cover but Tony Blair and New Labour have used the threat of AQ to impose the new anti-terror laws which will enable them to detain without trial AQ terror suspects. Interestingly, those that were being detained in Belmarsh until recently were considered to be the "spiritual leaders" of AQ. They were not terror suspects but being held because of their spiritual beliefs. Why isnt this being discussed openly in the UK and two and two being put together. Blair is using the fear of terrorism based on the AQ and some dodgy extapolations of the numbers of AQ sympathisers in the UK to impose some very draconian laws that undermine our democracy.

 

[layabout]

A myth now or on 911?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Both, I would assume.

 

[nino_savatte]

AQ has given the authorities a word-weapon to keep people in a state of fear. It's very convenient that this amorphous concept is at once everywhere and nowhere and can strike at anytime. It's better than the worldwide network of communism that the US claimed existed in the Cold War, that was used to justify American brutality in Indochina and elsewhere.

 

[Raisin D'etre]

Did the supposed AQ benefit from 911 and how so? Who gained the most from the terror attacks?

Ralph Schoenman gives an interesting reading on 911. He argues that the capitalist economy is increasingly addicted to arms expenditure; with the collapse of the Soviet Union, the absence of permanent war and the rational for feeding the military machine and the capitalist profiteering that derives from it, required a new rational for military expenditure.

AQ were initially set up by the CIA to, in the first instance, destabilise the Soviet union and to undo the marxist government set up in Afghanistan who were modernising Afghani society, that was the genesis for the CIA setting up these organisations.

Oded Yinon, a mossad spokesman publised in the 1970s "A Strategy for Israel" it called for the fragmenting of each Arab states into its religious and ethnic component to prepare for a direct seizure of Arab oil. One memoranda states that in order to sell this to american people they would need to create a bogeyman - Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.

The category of terror was a contrivance that was prepared by those in power to undertake major wars of intervention and domination and sell them to the American people as being under seige.

They settled on Saddam Hussein and Iraq, a country one fifth the size of the US, that had been softened up by 10 years of sanctions - as being a threat to the US - which is an absurdity.

He claims that these are the workings of an imperial power perpetually seeking to subjugate populations that seek to have mastery over their own resources and escape poverty, and is an attempt to punish these people and to prevent them from realising any kind of national aspiration and control over their own sovereign destiny.

HE also says that 911 is an expression of imperial reach and if you look at it with any care, the hands of intelligence are all over it.

How do we overlook the following:

- flying jet planes into a restricted space?
- the collapse of the wtc on their footprint?
- Osama Bin Laden more dangerous than the soviet union of 200 nuclear bombs - talk about a conspiracy theory.​

What about the fact the electronics telephone monitoring system Amdocs are all centred in Israel and totally penetrated with the US intelligence and that over 200 Mossad officers in the US were in constant contact with the hijackers? What about Urban Moving Systems that had US operatives involved in filming the wtc before the collapse of the towers - the white van? What about the presence of the so-called arts students that turn out to be mossad operatives at nuclear power sites? What about the collateral evidence of warnings to Odigo to employess not to be present on the day of the attack? What about the warnings of the Shabak to Sharon not to travel to New York as he was scheduled to on the day? What about Rumsfeld and Ashcroft being informed not to take commercial airlines for weeks before the attack? Or what about Schultz receiving a state dept memo on sept 7 re: anticipated attacks on sept 11 with respect to attacks on important symbols of US authority?

The very category of terror which is the entire ideological rational for "permanent war" in 60 countries according to James Woolsey, has to do with setting people up for carrying out a terror campaign. An entire apparatus was developed around the neocons to sustain the notion that there was a new menace in the world that would require massive military preparation - forget the surplus. According to their own document the Project for a New American Century they would need a new Pearl Harbour to mobilise around.

Schoenman says we need to organize around a challenge to power; to the extent that we refuse the evidence before our eyes and refuse to take aim at those who terrorise i.e. the reckless ruling class (the 1% who control 90% of the national wealth of the US) who used 911 for the seizure of oil we help facilitate the next attack. This is an ongoing class war against the people of the US who refuse to look.

Some other events that could never stand up in the clear light of day if they were investigated - Achille Lauro affair, mossad operation "trojan", USS Cole and the bombing of the Nairobi embassy.

And finally, Schoenman asserts that Mossad has been indispensable to the neocons operation.

 

[Sorry.]

A myth now or on 911?

Would you need a large coherent international organisation to carry out 911? Or just a few dozen like minded zealots with a bit of cash?

 

[fela fan]

Would you need a large coherent international organisation to carry out 911? Or just a few dozen like minded zealots with a bit of cash?

Perhaps look no further than elements within the US and/or israel.

In fact, there's no perhaps. But also there's no evidence out in the mass media.

But plenty of unbelievable stuff we are supposed to consume and accept.

By accepting that the US created AQ, and that they caused 911, everything suddenly looks clear in world politics in this new century.

That's all we can do, accept this premise, or deny it. Up to each individual. Coz we'll never get the proof while we have the media we have.

 

[Sorry.]

why would the US need to create AQ? They're hardly a country who has to invent enemies.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

why would the US need to create AQ? They're hardly a country who has to invent enemies.

None of them have secret mountain lairs, "franchises" all over the world, evil masterminds etc etc though.

PoN suggested that AQ is actually a legal fiction, developed in the trial for the original WTC attempted bombing, because the FBI wanted to prosecute using anti-racketeering laws and those need some sort of actual organisation.

 

[fela fan]

why would the US need to create AQ? They're hardly a country who has to invent enemies.

If you're needing to ask that question mate, then i'm not sure any answer will suffice.

The US government cannot do anything that the US people won't support.

So whatever actions they desire for their foreign policy, they need to either be sold to the people, or covered up from them.

AQ is actually a devastatingly useful enemy for the US to have, so bloody useful it really beggars disbelief that more people won't accept that the US created them.

Sooner or later the western world must wake up to the machinations of the US. PLenty of people in other countries see what is going on. Not to mention a good sized minority in the US itself.

But the western masses are in a parallel world of tv, fear, and celebrity obsession.

 

[layabout]

Would you need a large coherent international organisation to carry out 911? Or just a few dozen like minded zealots with a bit of cash?

*Unsubscribes from fantasy thread*

 

[Kameron]

PoN suggested that AQ is actually a legal fiction, developed in the trial for the original WTC attempted bombing, because the FBI wanted to prosecute using anti-racketeering laws and those need some sort of actual organisation.

It is also kind of hard to wind up the western world in fear of a few loosely connected religious zealots without leadership, command structure or mission statement.

 

[Vash]

The term Al Queda didn't exist before 911 I heard that on a documentary a while back.

 

[Yossarian]

Would you need a large coherent international organisation to carry out 911? Or just a few dozen like minded zealots with a bit of cash?

I've read that the whole operation cost less than a million dollars. It would have taken a fair bit of organisation but I doubt they'd have needed some huge shadowy international organisation to orchestrate it all.

Maybe some people might find that hard to believe, but I think before the 11th September of 2001 most people would have it hard to believe that all you'd need to level the World Trade Centre would be a few Stanley knives.

 

[Sorry.]

*Unsubscribes from fantasy thread*

Please explain.

Necessary components to 9/11

30 Odd Hijackers
4 Semi-Trained Pilots
Stanley knive each
Plane ticket each

Which of these requires an international terrorist network?

 

[Kameron]

Which of these requires an international terrorist network?

They had to synchronise watches, even the British Army can't manage that; Al Qaeda must be the hugest best organised in the whole world. Except that of course they didn't have to synchronise watches cause the airlines did that for them

 

[Raisin D'etre]

I've read that the whole operation cost less than a million dollars.

Do you have any sources for that Yossarian?

 

[Yossarian]

Nah, it's just something I vaguely remember seeing somewhere in the mountains of stuff published about the attacks over the last few years and could well be inaccurate. The wire transfer records didn't show any vast amounts of cash being paid to the attackers though - the largest payment was $100,000 to Mohammed Atta a few weeks before the 11th September.

 

[Sorry.]

and after a few initial successes, security services have hit a wall in terms of drying up fundamentalist cash supplies. So it's not like TWAT has even managed to tackle the only significant imput into 9/11

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The term Al Queda didn't exist before 911 I heard that on a documentary a while back.

No, it was certainly in use at the time of the original WTC bombing. I don't know about before that.

 

[Nemo]

No, it was certainly in use at the time of the original WTC bombing. I don't know about before that.

I seem to recall that according to The Power of Nightmares, it came about when they were prosecuting someone for the bombings of those US embassies in Africa in 1998.

 

[X-77]

A myth now or on 911?

A myth now or when the US invaded Afghanistan to get their UNOCAL pipeline or when they invaded oil-rich Iraq which had nothing to do with 911?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I seem to recall that according to The Power of Nightmares, it came about when they were prosecuting someone for the bombings of those US embassies in Africa in 1998.

Well, it was before 2001, in any event.

 

[X-77]

*Unsubscribes from fantasy thread*

Translation: puts fingers in ears and screams "la la la, I can't hear you now..."

 

[DogorKat?]

Well, it was before 2001, in any event.

IIRC in The power of nightmares, it stated that Osama Bin Ladan did not use the term Al Quieda untill after 9/11
The US coined the term after the embassy bombings

 

[butchersapron]

Jason Burke in his book has Bin Laden using it in the mid 90s and also mentions that the term was in common usage from the mid 80s but as a tactic/rule of Jihadi warfare (coming from themselves, not the US), not as a formal organisation at that point.

 

[Rentonite]

Hey, dont worry fellas the Easter bunny will soon come and then all your dreams will come true...
Just lay your hands on the Plastic jesus................ close your eyes extra tight and click your heels together and say three times
there is no place like home, there is no place like home , there is no place like home.
you will feel better.......................

 

[Yossarian]

You can shove your plastic Jesus up your arse, and fuck off while you're doing it, you irrelevant cunt.

 

[editor]

Hey, dont worry fellas the Easter bunny will soon come and then all your dreams will come true...
Just lay your hands on the Plastic jesus................ close your eyes extra tight and click your heels together and say three times
there is no place like home, there is no place like home , there is no place like home.

Please keep your irrelevant gibberish out of threads where people are trying to have a grown up conversation.

 

[kropotkin]

Rentonite, do you think Al Quaida exist- as a real, structured orgasnisation I mean?

Are you aware that there is plenty of evidence that they actually don't, but are a fiction? Do you have any evidence that suggests they do exist- and i mean evidence, not just referring to 11/9 as proof.