A Girl Called Jack... time for action?

[Frances Lengel]

You keep saying she has no idea, but I can't work out why you think that. Maybe you are defining poverty in a more extreme way than most people would, as something experienced by only a very few people in extreme circumstances. A lot of people are living in poverty - as many as 1:6 children do. Not only people on benefits, but also people in low paid work. Many of those people might blog or be involved in activism or art etc.

I'm not.

 

[Thora]

I'm not.

I'm not sure how you are defining it then, if low paid work and benefits isn't poverty enough?

 

[QueenOfGoths]

I'm not saying she's in the wrong for doing her blog - I'm saying the content of her blog shows that she knows a resounding fuck all about what it is to be poor in the UK in 2013.

I think, as Thora said, your definition of poverty may be at variance to what other people would consider to be poverty/on the breadline.

From what I've read she has experienced poverty, maybe not as extreme as your definition, but certainly something that a lot of people might recognise and empathise with.

 

[bamalama]

Look for those who missed it,i couldn't give a flying about jack and her wee project i hope her career works out for her.What is contentious for me and what a lot of people, who are breaking their necks to defend this class warrior, have ignored is the comparison between her and weepiper workmate,in terms of how she has pulled herself up by the bootstraps with positivity,and pipers mate is floundering in poverty because they are reacting to their situation negatively.I think it's got fuck all to do with positive/negative crap,but everything to do with their material/social position,and access to resources...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If she makes no claims to be writing about anything other than what she went through, that's that, no?

 

[frogwoman]

i sspect we're not going to agree on this - after having checked out her blog i dont think she's a LP type at all. its just that seemed to be what you were saying.

there are loads of people who have fuck all money who post on here, who do blogs, do music etc

i think she's genuine - that doesnt invalidate any criticisms of this sort of thing normalising poverty and making it into some sort of glamorous thing but that's what others havve done not her as far as I can see

 

[frogwoman]

Look for those who missed it,i couldn't give a flying about jack and her wee project i hope her career works out for her.What is contentious for me and what a lot of people, who are breaking their necks to defend this class warrior, have ignored is the comparison between her and weepiper workmate,in terms of how she has pulled herself up by the bootstraps with positivity,and pipers mate is floundering in poverty because they are reacting to their situation negatively.I think it's got fuck all to do with positive/negative crap,but everything to do with their material/social position,and access to resources...

i don't think anyone did make that claim tho (that i can see, i havent read the whole thing) ... and how do you know what weepipers workmate does in his spare time?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Look for those who missed it,i couldn't give a flying about jack and her wee project i hope her career works out for her.What is contentious for me and what a lot of people, who are breaking their necks to defend this class warrior, have ignored is the comparison between her and weepiper workmate,in terms of how she has pulled herself up by the bootstraps with positivity,and pipers mate is floundering in poverty because they are reacting to their situation negatively.I think it's got fuck all to do with positive/negative crap,but everything to do with their material/social position,and access to resources...

If that is her message, then yes, I agree with you.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

If that is her message, then yes, I agree with you.

It isn't. eta: she makes it very clear that it isn't, too.

 

[frogwoman]

i didn't think it was her message though

 

[ice-is-forming]

Aw that's not it - At all. It's not about what I thought of or what she thought of, she's a dick coz she blogs about poverty whilst clearly having no idea.

Its a Maslow thing. until you know where your next meal, safe nights sleep, shelter from the cold etc..is coming from then it's ,ime, unusual for people to have the ability/inclination/motivation/head space to write about it. writing comes from a very different part of the brain than the default survival instincts of the rock bottom poor. Unless you are setting out as a poverty tourist who is able to keep the frontal cortex working because the hind /survival brain instincts know that, deep down, its only a game. This is ,imo, particuarly more intense with a dependent child.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

i didn't think it was her message though

Neither did I. From what I've read, that's exactly the criticism she's levelling at Oliver.

 

[bamalama]

If she makes no claims to be writing about anything other than what she went through, that's that, no?

You're still missing the point lbj...it's worrying frankly

 

[frogwoman]

Its a Maslow thing. until you know where your next meal, safe nights sleep, shelter from the cold etc..is coming from then it's ,ime, unusual for people to have the ability/inclination/motivation/head space to write about it. writing comes from a very different part of the brain than the default survival instincts of the rock bottom poor. Unless you are setting out as a poverty tourist who is able to keep the frontal cortex working because the hind /survival brain instincts know that, deep down, its only a game. This is ,imo, particuarly more intense with a dependent child.

thats just your experience though ... everyone is different, and what about hip hop etc lyrics written by people who are having to survive that way?

 

[Frances Lengel]

I'm not sure how you are defining it then, if low paid work and benefits isn't poverty enough?

Her experience of low paid work/benefits is bullshit is what I'm trying to say. She does not know that feeling of "this is all there is, no one's gonna get you out of this" IYSWIM, you can see it plain as day from the words she writes. And I think it's potentially quite pernicious for her crap to be lauded as "yeah, this is what it's really like", when it just isn't.

 

[bamalama]

i didn't think it was her message though

I havn't read enough of her blog to decide that for myself...this was what LiamO said inspired his op

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Its a Maslow thing. until you know where your next meal, safe nights sleep, shelter from the cold etc..is coming from then it's ,ime, unusual for people to have the ability/inclination/motivation/head space to write about it. .

I think this is very certainly true. Feeding the belly comes first. But then I would say that it is even more important for those who are a tiny bit above that position to be active in highlighting the problem - precisely because those who are rock-bottom cannot; they're too busy surviving.

Otherwise it's like saying that nobody can be politically active unless they are as badly off as everyone they include as being 'on their side'.

 

[frogwoman]

I havn't read enough of her blog to decide that for myself...this was what @liam said inspired his op

i think that was just what he was getting from it (and yep i agree that other people are using her stuff in that way, but i cant see her agreeing with it)

 

[Frances Lengel]

Its a Maslow thing. until you know where your next meal, safe nights sleep, shelter from the cold etc..is coming from then it's ,ime, unusual for people to have the ability/inclination/motivation/head space to write about it. writing comes from a very different part of the brain than the default survival instincts of the rock bottom poor. Unless you are setting out as a poverty tourist who is able to keep the frontal cortex working because the hind /survival brain instincts know that, deep down, its only a game. This is ,imo, particuarly more intense with a dependent child.

Nailed mate - What I've been trying to say. Thank you.

 

[Thora]

Its a Maslow thing. until you know where your next meal, safe nights sleep, shelter from the cold etc..is coming from then it's ,ime, unusual for people to have the ability/inclination/motivation/head space to write about it. writing comes from a very different part of the brain than the default survival instincts of the rock bottom poor. Unless you are setting out as a poverty tourist who is able to keep the frontal cortex working because the hind /survival brain instincts know that, deep down, its only a game. This is ,imo, particuarly more intense with a dependent child.

Again, you're saying she's not quite poor enough - that's what I don't understand. Lots of people have been in the situation she was in, on benefits, or in low waged work trying to juggle childcare and housing benefit fuckups and tax credits - and have still been able to write about it. Posters have written about those very same situations on here! Just because some people are poorer, and have it worse, and don't have the headspace to write about it doesn't devalue the experience of those who do.

 

[frogwoman]

Her experience of low paid work/benefits is bullshit is what I'm trying to say. She does not know that feeling of "this is all there is, no one's gonna get you out of this" IYSWIM, you can see it plain as day from the words she writes. And I think it's potentially quite pernicious for her crap to be lauded as "yeah, this is what it's really like", when it just isn't.

there are posters on this forum who do blogs and are/have been in that situation tho ... im not saying i have cos i haven't really but other people on here have?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Just because some people are poorer, and have it worse, and don't have the headspace to write about it doesn't devalue the experience of those who do.

And makes it even more important for them that you do, no? Otherwise they would be totally invisible.

 

[frogwoman]

and there are people/right wing twats who would say that you cant really be poor if you have a computer and post on forums ...

 

[FridgeMagnet]

and there are people/right wing twats who would say that you cant really be poor if you have a computer and post on forums ...

It's the new big telly.

eta: except that it's deliberately aimed at reducing people's ability to comment, as well as shaming them.

 

[Thora]

Her experience of low paid work/benefits is bullshit is what I'm trying to say. She does not know that feeling of "this is all there is, no one's gonna get you out of this" IYSWIM, you can see it plain as day from the words she writes. And I think it's potentially quite pernicious for her crap to be lauded as "yeah, this is what it's really like", when it just isn't.

How on earth do you know it's bullshit though? What about her blog makes you think that? I have read a few entries and many of them could have been written by posters on here having a tough time.

I don't know anything more about this woman than what she has said about herself, but can't see how you'd know it's bullshit?

 

[bamalama]

i think that was just what he was getting from it (and yep i agree that other people are using her stuff in that way, but i cant see her agreeing with it)

Can you not see how this works though,can you not see the fuckin field day the right wing press will have with it...again she's fairly irrelevant it's what she is that's important

 

[Frances Lengel]

Again, you're saying she's not quite poor enough - that's what I don't understand. Lots of people have been in the situation she was in, on benefits, or in low waged work trying to juggle childcare and housing benefit fuckups and tax credits - and have still been able to write about it. Posters have written about those very same situations on here! Just because some people are poorer, and have it worse, and don't have the headspace to write about it doesn't devalue the experience of those who do.

Not what I've been saying. I've been saying I reckon her experience is bullshit.

 

[QueenOfGoths]

Tbh she just seems to be working about her own experience of having very little money and trying to cope in a situation that many would consider being on the breadline. And if that helps or educates others them good.

I have no doubt there are people who have suffered more, who are in a worse situation, but as with most situations I don't think that negates what she has to say.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You're still missing the point lbj...it's worrying frankly

I don't think I am. I'm agreeing that on an absolute level, there must be people worse off than her, but I now think that this only makes what she's doing potentially even more important. I think the idea that she is/was a poverty tourist needs some justification.

 

[Frances Lengel]

It's the new big telly.

eta: except that it's deliberately aimed at reducing people's ability to comment, as well as shaming them.

Ah come on. Misrepresenting much?