'9/11 Truth Movement' and Academia

[nosos]

What are you thinking of doing in particular?

How conspiracy narratives are a response to the complexity of the late-modern world, the decline of political participation and a general hollowing-out of public political discourse. So mine's a bit different. I'm just fascinating by the social psychology of it: their invocation of notions of responsibility, truth and cataclyism. They must nobly make the truth known to stave of the destruction of all that is good and holy.

(this is more true of rightist NWO yank stuff than the 9/11 truth movement though)

 

[editor]

See, the ones that look like transfers, - if they do, well they could have been created by the conspiraloons, so as to create the false impression of fake footage.

Were the planes stuck on the scene as the live footage was beamed across the world then?

Perhaps some loons were going around on the streets of NY with little planes on sticks to fool all the tens of thousands of eye witnesses as well, yes?

 

[Corax]

It was all done with fuzzy-felt.

 

[Demosthenes]

Were the planes stuck on the scene as the live footage was beamed across the world then?

Perhaps some loons were going around on the streets of NY with little planes on sticks to fool all the tens of thousands of eye witnesses as well, yes?

My suggestion was that as far as I can see, unless I'm hallucinating, there's one video of a plane hitting a building that's so obviously fake, that you have to conclude someone faked it. Presumably if it wasn't the news, then it must have been the conspiraloons. Why so many of them are at it, seems like a reasonable question.

I don't know which live footage you've seen. I didn't see the footage live myself.

There's footage which appears as if it was live from CNN, which scans up from some waiting firemen, to the towers for the first explosion, and then the explosion comes out of the building, and there's no plane in sight.

And then there's some stuff featuring planes going into the buildings, that doesn't appear to be live. Some of which for various reasons that I can't put my finger on, looks as if the planes have been added.

And there's ones e.g. fox news, where you see first a realistic looking plane coming in from behind, and gradually disappearing behind the building, without apparently getting larger as it approaches, - and then after it disappears behind the building two explosions out of the front and the side, (the faces facing the camera)

And then there's one where the plane comes in from the right, - the implication appears to be it's the same shot from a different angle. Here the plane's too far away to say whether it's real or not, - but in any case, just before it hits the building, it cuts back to the original shot where the plane glides in behind the building and the explosion comes out the front just as it disappears.

And then there's one, - i can't remember whether it was supposed to be news footage or not, where the plane seems to come in from quite close to the angle of the camera, - from the left of the screen, but from about 8 oclock maybe, if the direction the camera's facing is 12. But this one looks totally unconvincing to me. that's the one which definitely looks fake, - and the plane just slices into the building at the angle it's been ever since it appeared on screen and disappears, and then the building explodes in all directions.

Overall, if you watch a bunch of the footage. It's pretty confusing. It's quite hard to work out what footage goes with what, and - you have to say, well if it's a conspiracy of conspiraloons to make it look as if the planes may not have existed, - then it's quite sophisticated and widespread. And there dont seem to be the corresponding sources from the original broadcasts available on youtube, that make it obvious that it really was planes, and not missiles, or controlled demolition.

 

[Dillinger4]

I am sorry I started this.

 

[Demosthenes]

I'm quite glad you did, - I never watched any of the videos before, - it's been educational.

 

[Dillinger4]

I'm quite glad you did, - I never watched any of the videos before, - it's been educational.

I hope you have learned that watching videos on youtube proves nothing and will only confuse you further, when that need not be the case.

 

[Dillinger4]

PS - I don't care about your descriptions of videos. They will not prove or disprove anything - They will only increase idle speculation, as your post shows.

 

[Dillinger4]

Oh - Also, the PM you sent me indicates that you already think that 9/11 was a conspiracy because of a comic you read in 1988. I probably wont take very much you say seriously.

 

[editor]

I don't know which live footage you've seen. .

Err, that'll be the live footage of it happening live. On TV.

So what are the URLs of these 'transfer' videos?

Ad what does it matter anyway when there's tens of thousands of eye witnesses who most definitely saw real planes hitting the towers and not fuzzy felt-in-the-sky transfers?

 

[editor]

Oh - Also, the PM you sent me indicates that you already think that 9/11 was a conspiracy because of a comic you read in 1988. I probably wont take very much you say seriously.

Tell us more Demosthenes!

 

[Demosthenes]

Well, no - mainly the overall view I've formed is that either the official version is a gigantic hoax, or else there's a hell of a lot of people out there, devoted to making loads of videos to convince people that it is.

And that I havent' yet managed to find a single source on youtube that seems to establish beyond doubt that it really was planes.

 

[Dillinger4]

Well, no - mainly the overall view I've formed is that either the official version is a gigantic hoax, or else there's a hell of a lot of people out there, devoted to making loads of videos to convince people that it is.

And that I havent' yet managed to find a single source on youtube that seems to establish beyond doubt that it really was planes.

You never will. Thats why youtube is not an acceptable academic source.

The thousands of people who saw it themselves - They would be.
Debris collected from the site - That would be.
The missing planes and passengers, flight manifests, flight data, where the planes are now - that would be.

Here is a question. What would convince you?

Because I get the impression nothing would.

 

[jonH]

it's bloody obvious, but Iraq and Afghanistan was a mistake, the US should have just blown up Mecca

 

[editor]

Well, no - mainly the overall view I've formed is that either the official version is a gigantic hoax, or else there's a hell of a lot of people out there, devoted to making loads of videos to convince people that it is.

And that I havent' yet managed to find a single source on youtube that seems to establish beyond doubt that it really was planes.

So 9/11 might in fact be the biggest and most convinving hoax ever witnessed on the planet, fooling millions of people and untold experts because of your homemade research on YouTube?

<KABOOM!!!!!> <- that's your credibility going through the LOL Barrier.

 

[Demosthenes]

Tell us more Demosthenes!

Oh the comic book, - I found it in Hackney library, in 2003 I think, it was an aliens comic books, - (aliens as in vicious enormous insect like creatures with acid for blood.) And I opened it up, and the first page I saw had top left, -

"after the destruction of the world trade centre in 2001 by terrorists, etc. etc."

So I thought, - that's odd. And I had a look at the publication date, because it seemed quite old. And the publication date was some time in the eighties, 1988 I think.

And this led me to believe that either some aliens comic book writer, just by coincidence happened to imagine a plot where the world trade centre got destroyed by terrorists in 2001, - as the background conquest to a comic where killer aliens take over the world, - or else, some freak had the power of foresight and foresaw that this would happen, and planted the message in a comic book, - or else that some branch of the emergency/conspiracy of conspiraloons, endlessly dedicated to trying to bewilder people like me into thinking that there's something odd about 911, manufactured the book after the event with a fake publication date and planted it in hackney library to confuse people.

 

[jonH]

So 9/11 might in fact be the biggest and most convinving hoax ever witnessed on the planet, fooling millions of people and untold experts because of your homemade research on YouTube?

<KABOOM!!!!!> <- that's your credibility going through the LOL Barrier.

don't believe anything written on the internet, number one rule

 

[editor]

And this led me to believe that either some aliens comic book writer, just by coincidence happened to imagine a plot where the world trade centre got destroyed by terrorists in 2001, - as the background conquest to a comic where killer aliens take over the world, - or else, some freak had the power of foresight and foresaw that this would happen, and planted the message in a comic book, - or else that some branch of the emergency/conspiracy of conspiraloons, endlessly dedicated to trying to bewilder people like me into thinking that there's something odd about 911, manufactured the book after the event with a fake publication date and planted it in hackney library to confuse people.

You're off your fucking rocker.

 

[Dillinger4]

Oh the comic book, - I found it in Hackney library, in 2003 I think, it was an aliens comic books, - (aliens as in vicious enormous insect like creatures with acid for blood.) And I opened it up, and the first page I saw had top left, -

"after the destruction of the world trade centre in 2001 by terrorists, etc. etc."

So I thought, - that's odd. And I had a look at the publication date, because it seemed quite old. And the publication date was some time in the eighties, 1988 I think.

And this led me to believe that either some aliens comic book writer, just by coincidence happened to imagine a plot where the world trade centre got destroyed by terrorists in 2001, - as the background conquest to a comic where killer aliens take over the world, - or else, some freak had the power of foresight and foresaw that this would happen, and planted the message in a comic book, - or else that some branch of the emergency/conspiracy of conspiraloons, endlessly dedicated to trying to bewilder people like me into thinking that there's something odd about 911, manufactured the book after the event with a fake publication date and planted it in hackney library to confuse people.

And?

What exactly are you saying?

 

[jonH]

bin?

 

[Demosthenes]

You never will. Thats why youtube is not an acceptable academic source.

The thousands of people who saw it themselves - They would be.
Debris collected from the site - That would be.
The missing planes and passengers, flight manifests, flight data, where the planes are now - that would be.

Here is a question. What would convince you?

Because I get the impression nothing would.

not at all. A convincing film of the planes hitting the centre would convince me. Evidence that the flights really existed, and film showing that real people died on them, and that their relatives are still in mourning for them. That would convince me. Like I say, - on youtube, there just doesn't seem to be any stuff like that, - it's all conspiraloonery really, - - It's really unbalanced.

 

[Dillinger4]

not at all. A convincing film of the planes hitting the centre would convince me. Evidence that the flights really existed, and film showing that real people died on them, and that their relatives are still in mourning for them. That would convince me. Like I say, - on youtube, there just doesn't seem to be any stuff like that, - it's all conspiraloonery really, - - It's really unbalanced.

Really?

Nosos - Your dissertation sounds more and more interesting.

 

[jonH]

not at all. A convincing film of the planes hitting the centre would convince me. Evidence that the flights really existed, and film showing that real people died on them, and that their relatives are still in mourning for them. That would convince me. Like I say, - on youtube, there just doesn't seem to be any stuff like that, - it's all conspiraloonery really, - - It's really unbalanced.

there's loads of true ones , surely

 

[Demosthenes]

Really?

Nosos - Your dissertation sounds more and more interesting.

really, honestly.

there's loads of true ones , surely

Maybe there are
. - I just haven't yet found one on youtube, - and yet there's shedloads of videos, including, apparently, all the original news footage.

 

[Dillinger4]

http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/victims_list.htm

Profiles of all the people who died there, in the WTC, Planes, Emergency Services - Full profiles with comments from family and friends.

 

[Dillinger4]

really, honestly.



Maybe there are
. - I just haven't yet found one on youtube, - and yet there's shedloads of videos, including, apparently, all the original news footage.

I don't think you will ever be convinced.

 

[Demosthenes]

http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/victims_list.htm

Profiles of all the people who died there, in the WTC, Planes, Emergency Services - Full profiles with comments from family and friends.

Well there doesn't seem to be anything in the way of comments from family and friends, on three taken at random, - - - but, I'm not sure what that site's meant to prove. I was talking more about stuff like videos of people talking about their friends and family who died on the flights.

I've had a look at a few passengers, - there's always plenty of comments from people who didn't know them, but not from people who did.

by contrast the victims from the wtc are commented on by people who knew them. As far as I can see so far.

I thought I'd found a counterexample.
http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/VictimInfo.asp?ID=108

apparently her whole immediate family died on that flight, and there was a link to a website memorial, - but the website url's died.

 

[nosos]

I don't think you will ever be convinced.

But will you ever be convinced to the contrary? Debates about 9/11 conspiracies inevitably break down to foundational assertions for which neither side will accept falsification criteria.

 

[butchersapron]

The loons have made a very powerful ally here.

 

[nosos]

Demosthenes?