38 degrees vs Lewes bonfire zulus

[sam butler]

I live in Lewes and I am a member of a bonfire society.

(Sorry to say however, that I am not a practising Satanist, although I do quite like some folk music)

My opinion, and the opinion of many people I know is that the Zulus are an embarrassment, that they should just get with the program... Blackface isn't acceptable, just knock it off...

It doesn't matter in the least if this isn't intended as a racist act... Blacking up reinforces any number of lazy racial tropes... Stripping people of their individuality and reducing them to base stereotypes...

 

[likesfish]

likes folk music thats all we need to know.
tbf if people who blacked up as Zulus had a the slightest clue it wouldn't be a problem but as they don't attempting to reason with them is going to fail because they think black face is harmless.

some people can see the history of minstral the i.e.crazy coon minstral show a big hit in the 50s in Hastings alexander park or was it last summer? isnt accpetable these days.
others though most are dead these days still think the black and white ministerial show was acceptable

 

[Casually Red]

It's very important to ensure no offence is caused to anyone during this state sponsored anti catholic hate fest that used to be obligatory for all British subjects .

 

[JimW]

Wales is not in Cornwall.

Though the wall bit is from the same Saxon root as Wales, meaning foreigners as in Britons.

 

[Athos]

I don't understand all the talk about this being unintentionally racist. I mean there are situations where someone could paint their face black without seeking to lampoon black people e.g. the practice of blackening, or even for a white actor to play a black role (though I accept both are contentious). But, here, they are deliberately stereotyping black people as savages (bones through the nose etc. )!

 

[likesfish]

It's very important to ensure no offence is caused to anyone during this state sponsored anti catholic hate fest that used to be obligatory for all British subjects .

tbf its not really an anti catholic hate fest and its certainly not state sponsored in any way shape or form the state has cracked down repeatidly

 

[krtek a houby]

tbf its not really an anti catholic hate fest and its certainly not state sponsored in any way shape or form the state has cracked down repeatidly

Not certain about that. There's certainly an iffy factor to the whole thing. Wasn't there a Traveller caravan effigy type thing burnt one year or have I got my bonfires mixed up?

And pure anecdotage but the only time I was ever there, I heard a table of people in some pub making stupid cracks about the Irish...

 

[Red Sky]

Not certain about that. There's certainly an iffy factor to the whole thing. Wasn't there a Traveller caravan effigy type thing burnt one year or have I got my bonfires mixed up?

And pure anecdotage but the only time I was ever there, I heard a table of people in some pub making stupid cracks about the Irish...

That was Firle Bonfire society, nearby but not actually Lewes.

 

[Red Sky]

tbf its not really an anti catholic hate fest and its certainly not state sponsored in any way shape or form the state has cracked down repeatidly

It's a jumble of contradictions. A celebration of the power of the mob against the high and mighty (they burn 'Tabs' of the 'enemies of Bonfire') but also an anti Catholic hate fest.
The anti Catholicism is tied up with anti authoritarianism but in any case is largely performative rather than sincere. There are Catholic churches in Lewes but I've never heard of any sectarianism the rest of the year round.
As for the blacking up, the rituals and costumes of Bonfire have continually changed over the years but there probably needs to be a face saving way for the society in question to back out and start doing something else.
There's also Red Indians by the way.

 

[The39thStep]

It's a jumble of contradictions. A celebration of the power of the mob against the high and mighty (they burn 'Tabs' of the 'enemies of Bonfire') but also an anti Catholic hate fest.
The anti Catholicism is tied up with anti authoritarianism but in any case is largely performative rather than sincere. There are Catholic churches in Lewes but I've never heard of any sectarianism the rest if the year round.
As for the blacking up, the rituals and costumes of Bonfire have continually changed over the years but there probably needs to be a face saving way for the society in question to back out and start doing something else.
There's also Red Indians by the way.

Red Indian is not the preferred nomenclature. Native American please.

 

[likesfish]

I think they actually prefer the name of their tribe rather than being lumped together.

 

[Red Sky]

Red Indian is not the preferred nomenclature. Native American please.

Oh no, these are definitely 'Red Indians' ,as imagined by Sussex bumpkins in the 1920s.

 

[likesfish]

I doubt theres much racist abouse to the first nations in sussex or anywhere in the Uk .
The only person I know who owns a tomahawk really shouldnt be allowed to have it

 

[Idaho]

Though the wall bit is from the same Saxon root as Wales, meaning foreigners as in Britons.

I thought it was a variation of cymru - like Cumbria.

 

[classicdish]

It's very important to ensure no offence is caused to anyone during this state sponsored anti catholic hate fest that used to be obligatory for all British subjects .

It's even worst than that:

2014.

Look away now CR!

 

[Casually Red]

It's a jumble of contradictions. A celebration of the power of the mob against the high and mighty (they burn 'Tabs' of the 'enemies of Bonfire') but also an anti Catholic hate fest.
The anti Catholicism is tied up with anti authoritarianism but in any case is largely performative rather than sincere. There are Catholic churches in Lewes but I've never heard of any sectarianism the rest of the year round.
As for the blacking up, the rituals and costumes of Bonfire have continually changed over the years but there probably needs to be a face saving way for the society in question to back out and start doing something else.
There's also Red Indians by the way.

The bonfire ritual is firmly rooted in anti catholic hatred . They used to burn papal effigies , some of which were stuffed with live cats .

Guy Fawkes Night - Wikipedia

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ah I see. Like lynchings. Offended folk should have just stayed away.

Sadly, the people being lynched didn't have that option, but I don't think Sas gets that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I live in Lewes and I am a member of a bonfire society.

(Sorry to say however, that I am not a practising Satanist, although I do quite like some folk music)

So what you're saying here is that actually you're WORSE than a Satanist!!!

My opinion, and the opinion of many people I know is that the Zulus are an embarrassment, that they should just get with the program... Blackface isn't acceptable, just knock it off...

It doesn't matter in the least if this isn't intended as a racist act... Blacking up reinforces any number of lazy racial tropes... Stripping people of their individuality and reducing them to base stereotypes...

Thing is, unless those "many people" make their opinions felt, blacking up will still happen.

 

[JimW]

Some alterations to the costumes will be made after the bloke who's leading the guest real Zulu dance troupe intervened having realised the full extent of what's going on: Bonfire festival drops 'racist' costumes

 

[Poi E]

That looks like an ace event to drop acid at <wanders off to the drugs forum>

 

[Red Sky]

That looks like an ace event to drop acid at <wanders off to the drugs forum>

It is.

 

[Red Sky]

Went to Lewes on entirely unrelated business today but got roped into helping set up Southover bonfire's site.

Bonfire gossip is that the Zulus decision isn't popular and that people will be blacking up in solidarity.

 

[cupid_stunt]

There was a bit on the local radio news earlier about police concerns that this will be the biggest ever, with around 60,000 flooding into Lewes (population 17,000). They are so concerned that they have got the train operator to agree not to stop at Lewes, and stations north & south, from noon today until tomorrow.

A multi-agency group is urging people to stay away from Lewes today (Saturday, 4) as the bonfire takes place, rather than attending the event.
The town will not be accessible from midday onwards until tomorrow morning (Sunday, 5), while agencies have said cars parked on the A27 or in other restricted areas will be towed away.
Restricted entry to Lewes ahead of bonfire tonight | More Radio

 

[cupid_stunt]

Lewes bonfire society members who were urged to stop painting their faces black complied on Saturday night, symbolically throwing a tin of black paint into the flames to mark the end of a tradition that had been dubbed racist.

BIB, nice touch.

Meanwhile, other societies marched with giant tableaux which included several effigies of Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un, one of Harvey Weinstein and another of Theresa May.

Lewes bonfire society ends tradition of blacking-up

 

[Treacle Toes]

Bonfire gossip is that the Zulus decision isn't popular and that people will be blacking up in solidarity.

Seems the rumour mill was a crock of shit.

 

[braindancer]

Yep - there were plenty of 'Zulus' out marching on Saturday - but not a blacked up face to be seen....

Bonfire was fucking ace!

 

[Poi E]

So no blackface. But can you still burn a Catholic?

 

[innit]

So no blackface. But can you still burn a Catholic?

It wouldn't be bonfire if you didn't chuck a rookie at the Pope*

*I have never actually thrown a firework at another person

 

[cupid_stunt]

So no blackface. But can you still burn a Catholic?

They don't actually burn Catholics!

Sure they burn effigies, including Guy Fawkes, but others too - this year Donald Trump, Kim Jong-un, Harvey Weinstein, and Theresa May, it isn't some sort of anti catholic wank-fest any longer, times have moved on.

 

[alsoknownas]

That looks like an ace event to drop acid at <wanders off to the drugs forum>

Although Lysergic acid diethylamide is not my supper of choice, I did quite wonder how some nice MDMA would have enhanced my Lewes experience when I went.