2021 Local elections

[Guineveretoo]

yeh i was thinking as i left the station i don't want my spunking cock coming back to haunt me

AFAIK that is not an offence (unless it is on someone else's ballot paper, I suppose).

I don't usually do the counting, because I have been working all day in a polling station but, on the occasions when I have (when the count is on another day), I have been disappointed at how few spoilt ballot papers have anything fun on them. I have seen a few saying "none of these" and some saying "no thanks" and one or two swear words. That's about all. A bit more wit and originality, please!

 

[Mr Moose]

I disagree, undermining was the key issue by some distance, Corbyn was a dead man walking by mid 2018 IMO, wounded and losing blood fast


View attachment 267133
The second referendum issue in second place of problems

There’s no doubt there was undermining, shamefully so, but that can’t be the only lesson.

 

[ska invita]

There’s no doubt there was undermining, shamefully so, but that can’t be the only lesson.

true...other lessons include purging the right early on and hiring some good lawyers to fight defamation cases

 

[Sue]

I imagine he heard the party volunteers saying "okay, here are the polling numbers from the xxx polling station" and thought that meant it had been received from the staff, rather than from the tellers sitting outside the polling station.

Or they didn't want to admit that they hadn't done any/much canvassing in which case having tellers there would be kind of pointless. (Or they couldn't get people to act as tellers even if they wanted to so were finessing things.)

 

[two sheds]

Less about the substance of their actual position, more about their failure to articulate and have a consistent party line. Which would have been difficult of course, but if you’re not dealing with another huge issue that leaves you open to attack, you at least have a chance of working out some way to own that division.

Fair play. And yes on reflection he should have forced a stronger party line. Difficult though when most MPs actively disliked him. If he'd cracked party whip more he'd have likely faced a full-scale rebellion. He was guilty of trusting labour MPs and allowing the liberal/Blairite wing too much leeway, but if that's weak then we'd have to call Starmer strong for pushing out the left. Does show that if the left does ever get into power again (not that I can see anyone who'd lead that) it needs to be as ruthless as the right has been,

Yep. But there was substance in there. And that’s what he failed to get on top of. Apologies were not enough. No idea whether a better response would have helped come the GE, but at least it wouldn’t have felt like a betrayal to support him.

Again, I'm not sure how. Most of the failings were before he appointed Formby to strengthen the procedures. And when he did intervene in two cases he was criticized by the EHRC for doing that, too. And we now know how much the right wing was working against him and trying to get rid of him.

Sure, but not really my point. It was going to very hard for him… but there are media brawls you can come back from. I don’t feel I can defend Corbyn. That’s the real failure there.

You can't just dismiss that, though. Indeed you can come back from media brawls, but not when the there was the incessant and hostile media coverage coming up to the election. With such a heavy thumb on the scales my main criticism is of the media rather than Corbyn. I don't think he could have done anything to get by that - particularly with brexit surrounding the election as it did.

How could he have fought it? Genuine question. He's been criticized for not getting the message across but he did that well enough - as above the actual policies were popular with the public. The policies weren't generally covered though, and virtually the only headlines for both print and tv media on were negative/made-up stories. That mud sticks.

But anyway, I can see how he looked weak, and in retrospect the party should certainly have deselected the MPs who were briefing against the elected leader of the party. But no doubt Kieth could say the same thing if/when he purges any left wing MPs.

 

[JTG]

Sure - and also a number of quite well to do, generally remain-leaning areas outside of Manchester itself too. You'd want a more detailed breakdown of how the vote was spread out to be able to tell but I'd expect Burnham's vote to be stronger in Manchester, Trafford, Stockport etc than in those areas.

For interest - found this about Burnham's 2016 victory

 

[ChrisD]

I think we can be sure that tony.c had been misinformed, tbh.

I have agent for several elections in the last few years.... political parties are able to buy copies of the ‘marked register’ . As Green Party we could only afford a few target seats but our very well resourced Labour Party would have had the lot. Problem is the churn (turnover/ change of address) between elections. It shows which 1/3 of the electorate voted and is useful data.
.....now back to the results.

 

[killer b]

Sure - and also a number of quite well to do, generally remain-leaning areas outside of Manchester itself too. You'd want a more detailed breakdown of how the vote was spread out to be able to tell but I'd expect Burnham's vote to be stronger in Manchester, Trafford, Stockport etc than in those areas.

last time round he was strongest in Manchester, Wigan, Tameside, Salford. Trafford and Stockport underperformed (the blue ward on the bottom right of JTG 's map here is in Stockport)

 

[ChrisD]

I have agent for several elections in the last few years.... political parties are able to buy copies of the ‘marked register’ . As Green Party we could only afford a few target seats but our very well resourced Labour Party would have had the lot. Problem is the churn (turnover/ change of address) between elections. It shows which 1/3 of the electorate voted and is useful data.
.....now back to the results.

Supply of the marked register and marked absent voting lists

www.electoralcommission.org.uk

 

[glitch hiker]

I’m working with BBC news on, sound turned down. It’s a constant parade of Tories smiling and clapping.

It’s like a dream sequence from a movie when the sound of laughing inside a tormented soul’s head just gets louder and louder as the faces distort. Muhahaha, MUHAHAHAHAHA….

This is a victory for the postfactual age.

 

[glitch hiker]

You;re on the right track with Labour Are Shit tbf

Unfortuantely there isn't much else that can unseat the Tories

 

[Pickman's model]

Unfortuantely there isn't much else that can unseat the Tories

that's what they used to say about the liberals, that no one else could prevent a tory victory.

 

[ska invita]

Unfortuantely there isn't much else that can unseat the Tories

Not with this lot in charge, no
Whats needed is plain as day - a populist democratic socialism presented with competence, confidence and party unity, with dissenters booted out and party base activated < till that day comes this is what will happen.
even the fucking Tories understand this

 

[Guineveretoo]

I have agent for several elections in the last few years.... political parties are able to buy copies of the ‘marked register’ . As Green Party we could only afford a few target seats but our very well resourced Labour Party would have had the lot. Problem is the churn (turnover/ change of address) between elections. It shows which 1/3 of the electorate voted and is useful data.
.....now back to the results.

Yes, but only after the election! (and not from the polling station)

 

[Guineveretoo]

Not with this lot in charge, no
Whats needed is plain as day - a populist democratic socialism presented with competence, confidence and party unity, with dissenters booted out and party base activated < till that day comes this is what will happen.
even the fucking Tories understand this

I don't agree with the "dissenters booted out" bit as a way of achieving party unity.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't agree with the "dissenters booted out" bit as a way of achieving party unity.

it works for a while until they find a new thing to fall out over

 

[discokermit]

Not with this lot in charge, no
Whats needed is plain as day - a populist democratic socialism presented with competence, confidence and party unity, with dissenters booted out and party base activated

and as soon as we win, we get the lists out and do what has to be done.

 

[Cid]

Fair play. And yes on reflection he should have forced a stronger party line. Difficult though when most MPs actively disliked him. If he'd cracked party whip more he'd have likely faced a full-scale rebellion. He was guilty of trusting labour MPs and allowing the liberal/Blairite wing too much leeway, but if that's weak then we'd have to call Starmer strong for pushing out the left. Does show that if the left does ever get into power again (not that I can see anyone who'd lead that) it needs to be as ruthless as the right has been,



Again, I'm not sure how. Most of the failings were before he appointed Formby to strengthen the procedures. And when he did intervene in two cases he was criticized by the EHRC for doing that, too. And we now know how much the right wing was working against him and trying to get rid of him.



You can't just dismiss that, though. Indeed you can come back from media brawls, but not when the there was the incessant and hostile media coverage coming up to the election. With such a heavy thumb on the scales my main criticism is of the media rather than Corbyn. I don't think he could have done anything to get by that - particularly with brexit surrounding the election as it did.

How could he have fought it? Genuine question. He's been criticized for not getting the message across but he did that well enough - as above the actual policies were popular with the public. The policies weren't generally covered though, and virtually the only headlines for both print and tv media on were negative/made-up stories. That mud sticks.

But anyway, I can see how he looked weak, and in retrospect the party should certainly have deselected the MPs who were briefing against the elected leader of the party. But no doubt Kieth could say the same thing if/when he purges any left wing MPs.

We’re getting into the weeds of counterfactuals here… my point is that there was some justification to the criticisms of him and his immediate allies. That made it hard to support his party. I mean I have centre-left Jewish family (I am neither), and I’d just find myself saying ‘to be honest you’re right’. It doesn’t matter how much whataboutery you use, the problem remains. And once you’re in that position, it’s incredibly hard to work your way out.

I can’t say what he could have done to bring it back from that - counterfactuals again. But he never recognised the patterns that have been outlined by Jewish posters on here. He never explained and disowned that. Something on those lines might not have calmed the press, but at least might have provided something that gave us a position to argue from.

 

[Pickman's model]

and as soon as we win, we get the lists out and do what has to be done.

rather than leave all the washing up to some future day which may of course never come, starting on the task now might make the desired outcome more likely.

 

[xenon]

Erm, what's a teller?

These the people that hang around outside polling stations and asked who you voted for? Don't think I've ever been asked or spoken to one TBH.

 

[discokermit]

rather than leave all the washing up to some future day which may of course never come, starting on the task now might make the desired outcome more likely.

we're not quite ready for playing pooh sticks with mp's on westminster bridge yet.

 

[discokermit]

we're not quite ready for playing pooh sticks with mp's on westminster bridge yet.

i am, but balance of forces an all that.

 

[xenon]

Only been canvassed once as well. 97, Malcom Wicks.

 

[Pickman's model]

we're not quite ready for playing pooh sticks with mp's on westminster bridge yet.

you're quite right, especially being how the last by-election went. but the humber bridge would be better, and would prove that the labour party were addressing concerns about being london-centric

 

[belboid]

Libscum make their first gain in Sheffield. Thankfully only by 41 votes, but still

 

[campanula]

I was sorta surpsised, Guineveretoo, when you mentioned how few ballots had been spoiled. Afaic, I think abstentions are a valid and useful source of data and should really be included in any post election analysis. Did my best, re, 'wit and originality" (apart from relying on the succinct ACAB on the PCC ballot). And in truth, it would pain me to draw a cock, spunking or otherwise, on my ballot sheets - no need whatsoever for phallocentric posturing in the face of a mountain of mendacious scumminess.

 

[discokermit]

you're quite right, especially being how the last by-election went. but the humber bridge would be better, and would prove that the labour party were addressing concerns about being london-centric

further to drag them but that might not be a bad thing.

 

[tony.c]

I promise you that your party did NOT get the information from the polling stations.

I am not the only one to have said that, and you can google it as well if you need to.

But it is time to accept that you are wrong on this, and to move on

If your party had enough volunteers to knock on the doors of all the voters who supported them, they would surely have had enough to act as tellers

OK I concede that I got it wrong on election agents getting lists of voters poll numbers. On thinking about it more, it may have been because I remember a CLP bigwig who said at a ward meeting that he knew that some members had voted for left candidates rather than Labour (and I thought looking at me pointedly!). I think he was CLP election agent then and did get the lists of numbers voting from polling stations. So I probably put two and two together and came up with five.
But we definitely didn't have polling station tellers from the 2017 GE onwards. I remember there was one polling station that was covered for some reason - maybe to see if it made any difference.

We did have a lot of volunteers in the 2017 GE, not just members but supporters and even a couple of members of the Greens iirc. I am not keen on the doorknocking but I did it and we were sent out from the ward election hq every hour to knock on doors of people who had indicated that they would vote Labour. Others were on the phone bank, until we knew that they had voted. After 7pm we were told by Labour HQ to cease campaigning and send any volunteers to a neighbouring marginal constituency - when they got there they were told they weren't needed as there were already over 900 people out knocking up. Labour did hold the seat.

I did suggest at a Ward meeting that we should have tellers outside polling stations. I actually preferred doing that to telephone canvassing or knocking on doors, but I was told it wasn't needed.

 

[brogdale]

I have agent for several elections in the last few years.... political parties are able to buy copies of the ‘marked register’ . As Green Party we could only afford a few target seats but our very well resourced Labour Party would have had the lot. Problem is the churn (turnover/ change of address) between elections. It shows which 1/3 of the electorate voted and is useful data.
.....now back to the results.

Indeed, but this has nothing to do with agent access to polling stations on election day to collect turnout progress.

 

[ska invita]

I think abstentions are a valid and useful source of data and should really be included in any post election analysis.

Most people abstain by not going to the booth