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Workers Power have split

SpineyNorman said:
So were the SP, AWL and Workers' Power. Most of the work goes on inside though, I was there leafleting this morning. We'll be there every day until it ends (Thursday I believe) and I expect the rest will too.
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Give us a good report back. I know that the left candidate for VP(welfare) was elected, that conference re-affiliated to UAF and called for a national demo in the autumn. But why did the AWL-ish presidential candidate pull out of that election? I noticed a tweet about another left candidate's appearance (Sean R-R?)/ What was that about? I'm sure there was so much else
 
Delroy Booth said:
It's beyond a fucking joke I mean what the fuck are they playing at?

I was halfway through writing something, I know butchers is keen to see it, where I collectively list every single socialist organization in britain. From the IBT to the CPGB-ML and so on and so on. Just so I could see how many people were in them all. I didn't get through it because it's such a soul-crushing experience that I couldn't bring myself to finish it off. However, I can say with a degree of certaintly, there are well over 10,000 people in this country who are members of a left-wing sect or group, when you add them all together. And for those 10,000 people, there are literally dozens and dozens of parties. I keep coming accross new ones every time I look. It's beyond a joke.
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Some of the anarchists are just as bad.
 
Geoff Collier said:
Give us a good report back. I know that the left candidate for VP(welfare) was elected, that conference re-affiliated to UAF and called for a national demo in the autumn. But why did the AWL-ish presidential candidate pull out of that election? I noticed a tweet about another left candidate's appearance (Sean R-R?)/ What was that about? I'm sure there was so much else
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Was the AWLish candidate a woman? Clare something or other? If so it was for personal/family reasons (don't know the detail and didn't ask cos it's none of my business). I've not been around much today or yesterday, been busy with other things, but I'll be in a meerting tonight with some of the delegates so I'll post what I find out on here.
 
SpineyNorman said:
Was the AWLish candidate a woman? Clare something or other? If so it was for personal/family reasons (don't know the detail and didn't ask cos it's none of my business). I've not been around much today or yesterday, been busy with other things, but I'll be in a meerting tonight with some of the delegates so I'll post what I find out on here.
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That's who I meant. I don't know if "AWL-ish" is a fair description though. It was just an outsider's impression.
 
This report is easier to follow. Is it really true that they say North Korea is some some sort of "workers state"? If so, the truth would seem to be stranger than the some of the fiction here.
 
Jean-Luc said:
This report is easier to follow. Is it really true that they say North Korea is some some sort of "workers state"? If so, the truth would seem to be stranger than the some of the fiction here.
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The traditional position of what might be called orthodox trotskyism is that the Soviet Union was a degenerated workers' state, degenerated because it was at one point a real worker's state. Other states of a similar type which were never healthy were seen as deformed workers' states. Is that a surprise to anyone?
I'm not sure that Workers Power still held to that. They has rethink about ten years ago but I can't recall what conclusion they reached
 
Geoff Collier said:
The traditional position of what might be called orthodox trotskyism is that the Soviet Union was a degenerated workers' state, degenerated because it was at one point a real worker's state. Other states of a similar type which were never healthy were seen as deformed workers' states. Is that a surprise to anyone?
I'm not sure that Workers Power still held to that. They has rethink about ten years ago but I can't recall what conclusion they reached
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Based on this article (http://www.workerspower.net/us-imperialism-has-north-korea-in-its-cross-hairs) it looks like they take an ortho-Trot view of North Korea.

The North Koreans must be afforded the right to develop nuclear weapons if they feel the need to do so to resist imperialist aggression. The consequences of the re-introduction of capitalism on the workers and peasants of North Korea would be nothing short of catastrophic. As socialists we are for the defeat of US and Japanese imperialism and the defense of the planned-property relations.
We reject any attempt at regime change by the imperialists. However, we are not blind to the horrors of the regime. The Stalinist dictators in North Korea preside over a monstrous bureaucratic regime, one that oppresses it’s largely peasant population. The League for the Fifth International is committed to building a revolutionary party in North Korea to overthrow the regime and replace it with genuine workers and peasants power – a struggle for political revolution.
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Geoff Collier said:
The traditional position of what might be called orthodox trotskyism is that the Soviet Union was a degenerated workers' state, degenerated because it was at one point a real worker's state. Other states of a similar type which were never healthy were seen as deformed workers' states. Is that a surprise to anyone?
I'm not sure that Workers Power still held to that. They has rethink about ten years ago but I can't recall what conclusion they reached
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The last time Workers Power did any thinking of their own was when they came up with the brand new category of "moribund workers states", to describe the former Stalinist states after their collapse. After they finally gave up on that, they not unwisely decided that thinking wasn't their strong point and gave it up permanently. Every once in a while a few of their members forget this important lesson, start reading books and trying to come up with new ideas. So they decide, for instance, that capitalism is in the midst of a world historic upswing, just as it's about to enter its gravest crisis in eighty years. This forgetfulness has led to most of their recent splits.
 
chilango said:
PD now featuring on Ian Bone's blog...
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i did think that it would be more in keeping with the persona of PD to reject all applications to join as obviously from dilliattentes and internet ne'erdowells who are on facebook when they should be out in the villages and hamlets of the thames valley raising peasant consciousness and bringing the good news of comrade Posada's thoughts to their benighted lives
 
Geoff Collier said:
The traditional position of what might be called orthodox trotskyism is that the Soviet Union was a degenerated workers' state, degenerated because it was at one point a real worker's state. Other states of a similar type which were never healthy were seen as deformed workers' states. Is that a surprise to anyone?
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Agreed, we'd better not go too far down this road as this is presumably what SPEW thinks too and we won't know who is having the last laugh.;)
 
frogwoman said:
it won't be long before they start sending people in as spies.
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FW - I think you're a little off the pace. As I type Fisher and Conrad are huddled together trying to make sense of the intel they have recieved from their 'red mole'. As the Weekly Worker will at some point tell us, 'you must understand this is all being done in the interest of the movement comrade'.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
The paper should have classifieds and personals and that. Eg.
Gender neutral member of the steering committee of the Revolutionary Communist League, one of the two (public) factions of the Fourth International in Belgium and a member of the new Progressive Proletarian Struggle [Posadist] (PPS(P)) party in Wavre which is recognised (by some) as being “close to Friends Of Proletarian Democracy” in parts of Leuven while currently requesting official recognition from Proletarian Democracy, seeks similar (with GSOH) for walks, meetings, talks, meetings and.....maybe more?
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And so on.
 
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