Women's World Cup 2023

[two sheds]

Well it seems to be increasing in the womens' professional game, too, particularly in that last game so my comments hold.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If you're going to object to the suggestion that you (not that I singled you out) are being a bit patronising towards the women's game, maybe it's best not to make a distinction between them and 'the professional game'. That's the whole point really, it's the tone of it not whether any particular example of behaviour is good or not.

tbf you're making a bit of a different point. I hate the aggression of football fans as a group. The very idea that they need to be segregated, that you need to keep your mouth shut if you have the wrong accent among a particular group of supporters, is beyond pathetic. I hope the women's game doesn't develop that kind of aggressive support. The presence of far more women among the supporters will probably prevent it.

I've heard it defended as a means of allowing people (overwhelmingly men) to let off steam. I've always strongly suspected that it has the opposite effect. Aggression begets aggression. How many women have been beaten up over the years because their husbands' football team has lost a match?

 

[skyscraper101]

Yeah I think the differences on the pitch are negligible. Women and men players pretty much do the same stuff, commit the same sort of fouls, time wasting tactics, ganging up on the ref etc. I do think there's noticeably less play acting for injuries, but that's the only real difference I've noted.

For me its the differences in the fans which is more noticeable. They're just better behaved, less violent, less jingoistic and generally free from beered up, coked up cock heads looking for a fight because 'England' or 'West Ham' or whatever. It's a fucking plague on the game.

 

[Petcha]

The last time I went to Old Trafford the entire stretford end was united in singing the Adebayor chant 'adebayor, adebayor his father washes elephants and his mother's a whore' anytime he approached the penalty area but then that was 15 years ago. I also saw a guy get beaten up on the tram back from OT to the centre because he was wearing RayBans ('cockney wanker')

Football is bizarre in that many of those people would probably never dream of saying such shit outside a stadium. I have a young son and don't intend to ever take him to a men's game but I probably would a women's one.

 

[JimW]

Though the Nigerian woman who got fouled by James gave a very magnanimous quote, then said jokingly her arse was fine and it's only a game

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Though the Nigerian woman who got fouled by James gave a very magnanimous quote, then said jokingly her arse was fine and it's only a game

She might just have saved James a three-match suspension. James also very apologetic today. Hopefully her World Cup isn't over!

 

[skyscraper101]

Shame for Morocco this. France have bossed this game from the start.

 

[strung out]

Yeah I think the differences on the pitch are negligible. Women and men players pretty much do the same stuff, commit the same sort of fouls, time wasting tactics, ganging up on the ref etc. I do think there's noticeably less play acting for injuries, but that's the only real difference I've noted.

For me its the differences in the fans which is more noticeable. They're just better behaved, less violent, less jingoistic and generally free from beered up, coked up cock heads looking for a fight because 'England' or 'West Ham' or whatever. It's a fucking plague on the game.

Nobody's arguing in favour of violent, coked up dickheads looking for a fight.

The initial criticism of fans today was that they were 'whistling when the other team has the ball'. God forbid people want to engage in a bit of partisan fun and light gamesmanship when they're supporting their team.

 

[Wilf]

The whole 'ooh isn't the women's game refreshing, you don't get any of that dreadful stuff you get in the men's game' thing can get quite patronising can't it.

It can be patronising, but there's an element of truth in it too. There seems to be less arsery from the players and I'm, thankfully, yet to see any Ronaldo level petulance.

 

[Wilf]

Yeah I think the differences on the pitch are negligible. Women and men players pretty much do the same stuff, commit the same sort of fouls, time wasting tactics, ganging up on the ref etc. I do think there's noticeably less play acting for injuries, but that's the only real difference I've noted.

Yes on fouls and time wasting, but much less getting in each others face, less pushing and shoving? Dunno, I don't watch women's club matches, just internationals, but that's my impression.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It can be patronising, but there's an element of truth in it too. There seems to be less arsery from the players and I'm, thankfully, yet to see any Ronaldo level petulance.

tbh I don't quite see how saying 'the women are less dickish than the men' is patronising towards women.

 

[two sheds]

Nobody's arguing in favour of violent, coked up dickheads looking for a fight.

The initial criticism of fans today was that they were 'whistling when the other team has the ball'. God forbid people want to engage in a bit of partisan fun and light gamesmanship when they're supporting their team.

Fans may not notice it while they’re with their mates doing supporting their team, but whistling at the opposing team doesn’t come across as lighthearted. The “holas” when winning teams are passing the ball amongst themselves come across as lighthearted – lighthearted mocking of the opposition for not being able to get the ball.

Aside from whistling for the end of the game, whistling comes across as a form of booing. It’s intended to get under the opposition’s skin, needle them, get them to make mistakes. You can tell because of the unpleasant laughter and jeering if they do make a mistake. Supporters whistle their own team when it’s playing badly, and that’s not lighthearted either.

Players who foul often get repeatedly whistled by the opposition whenever they get the ball, and the more they do it the louder is the whistling and booing, along with abuse that'll be thrown at them. None of that is lighthearted, particularly if they injure someone. Again they get jeered if they subsequently make a mistake and there can be real anger and hatred. You can see that in the faces of the most aggressive fans, confirmed by it sometimes being converted to violence when rival supporters clash after a game. It’s a sliding scale, but it moves naturally from one stage to the next given the right conditions.

My ex used to hate listening to football crowds so I always watched on tv with the sound down. She found the combined aggressive noise from tens of thousands of men acting with one mind in a crowd disturbing. I never asked her what in particular but I’d imagine it was largely the bad tempered or triumphant whistling, booing and jeering. She said one time that a lot of men she'd met didn't help by turning into angry males shouting at the tv when football was on.

As has been pointed out there's been much less of that sort of crowd reaction in this world cup, with supporters clearly having a good time. Which is why it jarred with me when I heard the whistling.

 

[Maggot]

Top song and my prediction for Saturday:





My day off today and there's no football.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Fans may not notice it while they’re with their mates doing supporting their team, but whistling at the opposing team doesn’t come across as lighthearted. The “holas” when winning teams are passing the ball amongst themselves come across as lighthearted – lighthearted mocking of the opposition for not being able to get the ball.

Aside from whistling for the end of the game, whistling comes across as a form of booing. It’s intended to get under the opposition’s skin, needle them, get them to make mistakes. You can tell because of the unpleasant laughter and jeering if they do make a mistake. Supporters whistle their own team when it’s playing badly, and that’s not lighthearted either.

Players who foul often get repeatedly whistled by the opposition whenever they get the ball, and the more they do it the louder is the whistling and booing, along with abuse that'll be thrown at them. None of that is lighthearted, particularly if they injure someone. Again they get jeered if they subsequently make a mistake and there can be real anger and hatred. You can see that in the faces of the most aggressive fans, confirmed by it sometimes being converted to violence when rival supporters clash after a game. It’s a sliding scale, but it moves naturally from one stage to the next given the right conditions.

My ex used to hate listening to football crowds so I always watched on tv with the sound down. She found the combined aggressive noise from tens of thousands of men acting with one mind in a crowd disturbing. I never asked her what in particular but I’d imagine it was largely the bad tempered or triumphant whistling, booing and jeering. She said one time that a lot of men she'd met didn't help by turning into angry males shouting at the tv when football was on.

As has been pointed out there's been much less of that sort of crowd reaction in this world cup, with supporters clearly having a good time. Which is why it jarred with me when I heard the whistling.

I think sometimes people on the inside don't see how this stuff can look from the outside.

Fine to enjoy that kind of football support I guess even though I do think it fuels aggression. But also fine to hate it. And not for the supporters themselves to dictate how others should see them, particularly when the aggression turns into actual physical violence and intimidation so regularly.

I've always disliked it. When I first started going to football, I thought this meant there was something wrong with me. We're humans and we like to fit in. Sometimes we do horrible things just to fit in.

 

[two sheds]

I think I see it after my ex pointed it out, plus I've not really supported a team since 1970/71 I think it was. Villa were in the 3rd division and playing the bottom club (Gillingham I think) and it was 0-0 and fucking freezing and boring and the worst game I'd ever seen, I decided I wasn't going again.

I follow footballers I like rather than a team, and they're often the ones getting kicked or pulled back after they've left a defender stranded.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Aye, to put it in very basic terms, to me it's the difference between "daft tribalism" and "aggro".

And just to clarify, in this context I'm using "daft" to refer to the execution, rather than where it comes from. It's obviously very hard to really nail down, as even if we accept some kind of distinction like that above, most people will disagree on what behaviour fits into which category based on personal taste, preference and experience.

 

[Lord Camomile]

My day off today and there's no football.

Seriously! No football, no Ashes, not even any netball!

Oh, there is the Cycling World Championships. That could be interesting.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I've been in a pub with the Clapton Ultras singing their songs and generally having a very good time. But the Clapton Ultras are an exception. They are not in any way representative of mainstream football culture. Mainstream (men's) football culture is mostly boorish and fucking boring tbh.

No actual football to talk about today.

 

[Petcha]

Seriously! No football, no Ashes, not even any netball!

Oh, there is the Cycling World Championships. That could be interesting.

Well the women's Hundred's on at the moment. And it's not raining.

Which incidentally is showing an advert featuring Lauren James every few minutes advertising deodorant. The advertiser must be considering pulling that.

 

[Petcha]

Just reading about the deals she did pre-world cup with sponsors. They were throwing money at her. And then.. £14k for a single insta post which is apparently considered to be not that much

However, one who specialises in sports contracts says that while men still earn more, women are catching up fast – and nobody more so than Ms James.

They said: 'When it comes to getting deals, it is very much about how someone plays on the pitch and Lauren is a star.

'She is the woman of the moment and unless something drastic happens, she is on course to be a massive name once the World Cup is over.

'£14,000 for a post will be miniscule in a few weeks. She will make a fortune.'

 

[two sheds]

She'll get plenty of ads for step ladders and back massagers.

 

[belboid]

Seriously! No football, no Ashes, not even any netball!

Oh, there is the Cycling World Championships. That could be interesting.

Canadian Open is on, good win for Muzza yesterday.

 

[kalidarkone]

When are Jamaica next playing?

 

[planetgeli]

When are Jamaica next playing?

Yesterday. They lost 1-0.

 

[planetgeli]

Which incidentally is showing an advert featuring Lauren James every few minutes advertising deodorant. The advertiser must be considering pulling that.

Oh you mean like how Beckham's profile suffered beyond redemption after lifting his foot against Argentina?

"The first 21 year old ever to make a mistake" - David Squires, Guardian.

 

[Petcha]

Listening to Rachel Yankey on 5live. Apparently she had to pretend to be a boy until the age of 10 just to play football, cutting her hair short etc. Only her coach and two of the boys knew. Then someone told a ref and she was sent off. I mean. This is not even that long ago. The progress has been astonishing but it's fucking depressing to think about.

 

[savoloysam]

When I was in primary school we had a girl in our team and one of the boys was in the netball team. Nobody battered an eye lid about it.

 

[Petcha]

When I was in primary school we had a girl in our team and one of the boys was in the netball team. Nobody battered an eye lid about it.

This was at a club, not a school so probably a bit different. There weren't girls' teams in her area apparently (inner city london)

 

[Joe Chi Min]

I think I see it after my ex pointed it out, plus I've not really supported a team since 1970/71 I think it was. Villa were in the 3rd division and playing the bottom club (Gillingham I think) and it was 0-0 and fucking freezing and boring and the worst game I'd ever seen, I decided I wasn't going again.

I follow footballers I like rather than a team, and they're often the ones getting kicked or pulled back after they've left a defender stranded.

Which ones T.S. ?

 

[two sheds]

The obvious ones I'm afraid, Just ones I look out for if I’m watching a side, there's normally one or two in each of the premiership teams but particularly people like Saka, Eze, Zaha, Shaqiri, Salah, Son, Modric, Alexander Arnold, Vardy, de Bruyne, Miedema, Weah, Mane, Puskas, Eusebio, Best, Charlton, Yashin …