butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How many are they? People in affluent areas that the cuts haven't directly effected. Who else can they tailor their pleas to? They have fucked over pretty much every interest group.
Why the lib-dems are shit
- Thread starter butchersapron
- Start date
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Do you think this may be what Cameron's thing about gay marriage is? It doesn't make sense to me otherwise, but if it takes out the LDs ability to portray themselves as nice social liberals against horrid tory reactionaries then it might win the tories seats off the LDs by collapsing the LD vote even further? I ahven't looked at the figures at all so just thinking off the top of my head here. I guess I'd be looking at fairly well-off socially liberal south-east seats, sw London etc, where the tories are second to the LDs.
Also possibly places like Hove where Labour ought to win (and will I suppose) but where there's a narrow tory margin vs Labour but there are a lot of LD votes - dunno if there are any examples of this.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think that's exactly what it's about and exactly in those areas.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I wonder what the results would have been if the same questions had been asked two or three years ago. Rather different, I suspect, given that it seems logical to suppose that a lot of the members the Lib Dems have haemorrhaged have been from the left of the party.
That was roughly my first reaction, but then I just thought 'fuck it - they've made their bed, and now they've got to lie in it.' Reeves and Cleggy and the rest of them can huff and puff all the like, but the reality is that they made a suicidal political miscalculation going into coalition with the Tories, and recovering from it will take decades, not years, if it's even possible.
There are some spectacularly deluded people around at the grassroots, though. I was talking recently with someone - not a fool, by any means - who worked for Tim Farron briefly a couple of years back. When I made some cynical remark about that being just as the Lib Dem collapse started he came back with a pile of clichés about how the situation on the ground actually wasn't too bad, and people would respect them for taking tough but necessary decisions, and so on and so forth. He also suggested that people in cities such as Hull (where this conversation took place) must be 'stupid' if they won't vote Lib Dem again. I took umbrage at that one and demanded to know why people should be expected to carry on voting for a party that had ditched all of its manifesto commitments, and allowed a right-wing Tory government to inflict the worst of the spending cuts on the poorest areas of the country, including a lot of former Lib Dem strongholds. He didn't have much answer to that, and still less when I pointed out the UKIP-esque opinion poll ratings, two rounds of disastrous local elections and Farron's own admission that the Lib dems will not be able to fight another election as a national political force if things don't improve for them. He still didn't seem to get it. Didn't stop us ending up in bed tbh.
Anger fuck!
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Hang on:
I spent my teenage years living in Werrington. It was shit.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
That escalated quicklyI wonder what the results would have been if the same questions had been asked two or three years ago. Rather different, I suspect, given that it seems logical to suppose that a lot of the members the Lib Dems have haemorrhaged have been from the left of the party.
That was roughly my first reaction, but then I just thought 'fuck it - they've made their bed, and now they've got to lie in it.' Reeves and Cleggy and the rest of them can huff and puff all the like, but the reality is that they made a suicidal political miscalculation going into coalition with the Tories, and recovering from it will take decades, not years, if it's even possible.
There are some spectacularly deluded people around at the grassroots, though. I was talking recently with someone - not a fool.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Lamely trying to fight Labour councils' ineptness is the strategy. I'll try and scan a Focus leaflet round here it's dire.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I'm getting the distinct impression that they're hoping to nick Tory voters who're put off by the tories turning back into the nasty party that Cameron pretended they weren't at the last election.
I'm guessing that the idea for them would be that if they can do this then they might get enough off the tories to end up in coalition with Labour. I suspect that's their strategy, though I honestly think that those in ministerial positions don't give a shit who they're in coalition with as long as they get to keep their sniff of power.
I don't think Clegg really believes the Labour line that they might go into coalition with lib dems if needed, but not with Clegg as leader either.
This is just my impression though, and I've no inside line on this stuff these days as my brother really doesn't like talking about it anymore, I think he just stays as a member mainly because he's now mates with quite a few of them in the local party after helping out for a decade or so. I can't remember the last time he actually delivered any of the leaflets that the lib dems keep dropping off for him to deliver. I think he may have done it once this year, the rest went in the bin - he spent about a month solid putting poster boards etc up for them at the last election.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Clegg making clear his intention to attack universal benefits.
Yes, I think that very probably is it.
That said, I do think the Cameron types do genuinely believe gay marriage is at least no bad thing. Gay rights - or at least, the right of gay people to be 'good' Tory-voting, married, property-owning citizens - is something that can be pretty easily incorporated into their view of the world.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Yep it's pretty reactionary really, extending the nuclear unit to gay people and generally universalising its wonderfulness.
I was more wondering about why he would go strong on it when he's already got a significantly large disgruntled trad clique grumbling on the sidelines but it may be that decent polling data will show him that the tories have more to gain from LD floating voters than he has to lose in UKIP defecting voters. But I haven't looked at the numbers in any seats so I don't know how well it stands up.
I've no idea what the figures are either, but I suspect that or something like it is the game he's playing, yes.
That's interesting in and of itself - I would wager it took Labour until 2005 on some level and not really until 09-10 to get to a similar state with it's average activist behaving like that. It's taken the Libdems under three years to reach the same level and from a much lower base.
I think that really does show how far they have got to climb out of their self dug pit for 2015.
The Euros will be the next big test as they get annihilated by Labour and UKIP and the Greens might even see a resurgence just off the back of the Libdem collapse.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
LOL! I hope he tells them that they've been delivered!
free spirit
more tea vicar?
nah, he's told them he's busy and can only deliver them when he get's chance, and if they can find someone else who's more reliable etc..... but they're still happy enough to drop them off and don't seem to say anything even when the old leaflets are still in the cupboard when they deliver the next lot.
That's how desperate they are, and this is / was one of their strongest constituencies.
That's how desperate they are, and this is / was one of their strongest constituencies.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
We get focus leaflets through our door, I always try to catch them in the act so I can abuse/take the piss out of them but I think the crafty buggers are expecting it and use what is, in all honesty, a very impressive drive by/hit and run leafleting strategy cos I've never seen so much as the back of their heels and given that there's 3 flights of stairs down from my flat that's pretty impressive.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
I agree with the analysis that the lib dems are now trying to pitch themselves as a right of centre socially liberal party - as UKIP pulls the tories right the lib dems are trying to capture their 'moderniser' wing.
Its where the orange bookers are ideologically. They maybe guess that they are not going to get the left of centre vote anymore so are targeting 'moderniser' tories. Welcoming right wing cunts regardless of ethnicity, gender of sexuality - something which the tories are having trouble with as its driving up the UKIP vote.
Who knows? With this strategy the lib dems might one day get up to 15% of the vote.
And the right of centre vote gets split 3 ways.
Its where the orange bookers are ideologically. They maybe guess that they are not going to get the left of centre vote anymore so are targeting 'moderniser' tories. Welcoming right wing cunts regardless of ethnicity, gender of sexuality - something which the tories are having trouble with as its driving up the UKIP vote.
Who knows? With this strategy the lib dems might one day get up to 15% of the vote.
And the right of centre vote gets split 3 ways.
And the right of centre vote gets split 3 ways.
4 ways.
More Coalition shadow-boxing: Clegg urges Lib Dems to criticise Tories
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Quick, people have noticed our mask is slipping. We need to publicly pretend not to be cut from the same neoliberal cloth as the Tories.
This thread's pretty good as a advance post-mortem on those reality-avoiding numpties 
Whatever the thinking behind the internal Lib Dem memo and its leak, it combines self delusion and woeful incompetence strategically.
(Just adding to Spiney's and Roadkill's posts here I appreciate)
It's far, far too late for the LibDems to start affecting 'equidistance' again. Even if they ever had any in the first place. Once the Orange Book gang gained control they became even closer to the Tories than before ...
(Just adding to Spiney's and Roadkill's posts here I appreciate)
It's far, far too late for the LibDems to start affecting 'equidistance' again. Even if they ever had any in the first place. Once the Orange Book gang gained control they became even closer to the Tories than before ...
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
This thread's pretty good as a advance post-mortem on those reality-avoiding numpties
You mean like an ante-mortem, Will?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Lib-dem Child.
Freaks Questions as well.
*************
Fallon up to his usual nice-dut-dim delusion as well:
You write the Lib Dems off at your peril
This child was just on The Big
*************
Fallon up to his usual nice-dut-dim delusion as well:
You write the Lib Dems off at your peril
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Capitalism doesn't bother me but rampant capitalism does. By this I mean that people are worshipping shops whilst the number of food banks are increasing and there is evermore need for donations. Rampant capitalism has created a culture where charity is out ruled by consumerism and the poor are blamed for their misfortune and the rich are praised and supported.
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