Athos
Well-Known Member
You choose to define as women people who identify as such (as opposed to adopting any other definition of womanhood you might have chosen). Then there's no difference between us on that point.
Why do some feminists hate transgender people?
- Thread starter D'wards
- Start date
You choose to define as women people who identify as such (as opposed to adopting any other definition of womanhood you might have chosen). Then there's no difference between us on that point.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
A poll has found two thirds of people would be happy with a transgender Prime Minister.
Proving most people really don't give a shit and we can argue around the edges (and indeed bigotry needs to be confronted, it's an essential part of the march forwards) but people like Greer are on their way out. And good riddance.
Proving most people really don't give a shit and we can argue around the edges (and indeed bigotry needs to be confronted, it's an essential part of the march forwards) but people like Greer are on their way out. And good riddance.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
Britain's a shithole in so many respects, but we're actually one of the most progressive countries in the world. We should hold onto that and fight to keep it so.
And yet Greer is a part of the reason for the UK being progressive...
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Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
Yeah, people are complex. Sometimes they do good things, sometimes they do bad things. Even if they've done good things you call them out on their shit. 
UK subversive
New Member
Thank god that Germaine Greer spoke sense. I agree with everything she says on this issue. I'm not a hater, but don't ask me to believe the unbelievable.
An opinion is not a prescription.
I also don't buy this sex/gender binary. frankly, biology cannot disappear that easily. the high rates of suicide are probably due to the drugs,hormones, operations etc that people undergo, which frankly must fuck people up. Look at that as well.
Greer made her arguments well, there is no need to repeat them. I've said my bit.
An opinion is not a prescription.
I also don't buy this sex/gender binary. frankly, biology cannot disappear that easily. the high rates of suicide are probably due to the drugs,hormones, operations etc that people undergo, which frankly must fuck people up. Look at that as well.
Greer made her arguments well, there is no need to repeat them. I've said my bit.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
So subversive.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Good though, that a troll defending Greer should appear so absurd.
Note to Greer: this is how you sound.
Note to Greer: this is how you sound.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
On the subject of Greer and her defenders:
"On why I'm starting to get why #fuckcispeople is a thing - A response to Helen Lewis."
"On why I'm starting to get why #fuckcispeople is a thing - A response to Helen Lewis."
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The need to own the definition of a thing. She clearly feels that need. I've never felt it, but then I've not experienced what she has. But this strikes me a bit of a turf war (a terf war?). There's a certain arrogance to asserting the ownership of anything, no, especially when many of those you would claim to share ownership with clearly disagree?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Why does he mention that he is white? I can't see anything relating to race in anything he says.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
I think it's to highlight his 'privilege' - the idea that cis white men do an awful lot of explaining on the internet, on all manner of things, and acknowledging you understand your privilege goes a long way in a short number of words to say you're not trying to do that "here, let me explain to you lesser people" thing.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Ok. I find it a little depressing whenever I see mention of race where it isn't relevant, as it doesn't seem to be here.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
He's showing he's a right-on dude by checking his privilege. He doesn't say whether he's able-bodied, though.
But he doesn't get that many women view the penis as a weapon because it has been wielded against them personally. I guess most penis-havers will never understand that, but I suspect it is behind a lot of the bigotry.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
And before you all leap in to tear me down, no - I don't think it's right or reasonable, just that it may be an explanation.
You are a reactionary conservative at heart.
toggle
wobbly
in think its one of the most difficult to understand and accept areas of the terf wars. but it's something that has become a political football for screamers, self appointed spokes-arseholes and controversialists. which guarantees that its going to remain difficult and unadressed and people will remain vulnerable. and the focus on penis is not only unnecessary, but i think hides that the problem is more likely to be for those who dont - for want of a better term- pass.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
I agree with that, especially that the main victims are trans women. But I'm not sure that avoiding the issue is the answer, however much it serves the rhetoric of 'screamers, self appointed spokes-arseholes and controversialists'. It is there, even it is not polite to talk about it. TBH, I think it's more of an issue with acceptance of trans women who don't seek to pass (beards etc).
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wobbly
while it has become that political football, it's hard to have that discussion without ending up becoming part of that slanging match.
as for beards......
These Bridal Photos Of 'Bearded Dame' Harnaam Kaur Are Simply Stunning
to highlight that it's never even that obvious.....
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
She's inspirational.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
But that is precisely because she's an outlier. Everyone knows that she is AFAB, and her religion sustains her against what a stereotypical woman would regard as a nightmare. She's a million miles away from Conchita Wurst who, as I understand, is a performance rather than an identity - let alone the dude who tells the world she is a woman without changing a single dudely thing, even beard, not even wanting to 'pass'. (OK, maybe sometimes a bit of lippy.) I do find the latter hard to understand but have to take them at their word.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
An attempt to minimise the drooze-effect
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
The high rates of suicide isn't helped by the rest of society being cunts and not allowing trans people simply to get on with their lives - whether it be attacking them on the street, ripping apart who they are on the internet, or the lengthy hoops that have to be jumped through to get treatment.
You fucking clueless twat.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Anyway, as someone who isn't cis, its always illuminating to read discussion both here and elsewhere. Its heartening that in the more mainstream of concious, trans and intersex people are becoming much more understood and accepted, whilst sadly and especially on the internet, the positions of both some feminists, trans activists and 'commentators' become ever more entrenched, and commonalities of experience/living in a world of patriarchy and capital and class are overshadowed by an ever increasing war of words over some facets of 'identity'.
Having got on my high horse about a lot of trans/sex/gender stuff here a few years ago when this place felt a bit hostile, it's pleasing to see how discussion has moved on a lot here too. But for that reason, and that for the first time in my life during the last year or so, I've finally become confident enough myself to ultimately not give much of a shit whether cis people consider me to be a man/woman based on their numerous privileged reasons, I've mostly sat back during this and other recent threads.
That doesn't mean that this stuff isn't important, especially to trans and intersex people who are on the receiving end as an oppressed minority, but sometimes you have to carve out your own space and leave some of this behind before it consumes you.
Having got on my high horse about a lot of trans/sex/gender stuff here a few years ago when this place felt a bit hostile, it's pleasing to see how discussion has moved on a lot here too. But for that reason, and that for the first time in my life during the last year or so, I've finally become confident enough myself to ultimately not give much of a shit whether cis people consider me to be a man/woman based on their numerous privileged reasons, I've mostly sat back during this and other recent threads.
That doesn't mean that this stuff isn't important, especially to trans and intersex people who are on the receiving end as an oppressed minority, but sometimes you have to carve out your own space and leave some of this behind before it consumes you.
UK subversive
New Member
so, if one agrees with GGreer, one must be a reactionary conservative? hmmm...
having an operation if you are not ill, and you simply 'feel' like you've got the wrong body is not a right. in fact, its a waste of resources. I hope the NHS doesn't provide for gender reassignment out of the public purse.
having an operation if you are not ill, and you simply 'feel' like you've got the wrong body is not a right. in fact, its a waste of resources. I hope the NHS doesn't provide for gender reassignment out of the public purse.
UK subversive
New Member
trans issues seem to me to be 'first world problems'.
i suspect the west is at an advanced stage of decadence, frankly.
i wouldn't want a transgender PM, because most of the rest of the world will never take he/she seriously.
i suspect the west is at an advanced stage of decadence, frankly.
i wouldn't want a transgender PM, because most of the rest of the world will never take he/she seriously.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You're trying too hard now. But I'm pleased to be able to dash your hopes. It does.
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