stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Well apart from all the trans people that exist in various forms across the World regardless of differences in societal, economic and cultural norms. You fucking clueless twat.
Why do some feminists hate transgender people?
- Thread starter D'wards
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Well apart from all the trans people that exist in various forms across the World regardless of differences in societal, economic and cultural norms. You fucking clueless twat.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Aren't the Hijra of India a couple of million-strong? Hardly "decadent Westerners".
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
where do you stand on eunuchs?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
or the famous thai ladyboysAren't the Hijra of India a couple of million-strong? Hardly "decadent Westerners".
Gender identities in Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
likesfish
You can't park here sir
your probably right 12 weeks so out in 6 is a hardly a draconian punishment in the normal scheme of things so tagging and a properly supervised asbo would be more effective.
1st world problem fair one but as uk isn't starving torn by civil war etc may be dealing with problems that effect some peoples lives are important cancer treatment 1st world problem?
Thora
Differently Ethical
Is there another way of deciding if someone is a woman? Maybe I have misunderstood your position.
it's either that or have some kind of assessment criteria that results in some trans women being excluded isn't it?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
There are plenty of ways of seeing that a person is serious about their gender dysphoria. In the case we're discussing, it's completely clear that she is serious about it. I think you're setting up a straw man to blow down when you characterise this as 'anyone getting to go where they choose'.
You've had even less contact with prisoners, their complaints, their appeals and their Bright Ideas than I have, haven't you?
I'm not arguing that anyone should be "thrown under the bus". I'm inquiring why it may have happened.
Without access to the neccessarily very private papers submitted to the court, we'll never know whether that was done. As someone noted, no person with a penis is going to be admitted to a women's prison as an inmate.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Currently it would appear that if you haven't received the official recognition of your position before going to court, it's too late to get that assessment done. That's what happened with this case we're discussing - the home office statement made it clear: long-standing policy to send everyone to the jail of their legal gender without assessment. So you might have been off to get your certificate finalised tomorrow, but if you're being sentenced today, you're out of luck.
And if she broke her ASBO? Then what? If she nutted some other poor sod in some other pub? Or worse?
As far as I can see, the woman hasn't demonstrated any obvious remorse for her crimes nor any respect for her punishments thus far.
FWIW, I reckon she should be sent to a women's prison ... but in all honesty I've got more sympathy with the various victims of her assaults than with whatever consequences she faces for assaulting them.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
so what?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I've just always been a great believer that sexual assault and the risk of should not be a punishment. Theres a lot of what ifs and the answer to none of them is mans jail in this case.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Any kind of penis, even one that is withered after years of hormone treatment? What if you were born with ambiguous genitalia? A 'micro-penis'?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
quite right too. only as screws with authority over inmates.
Thora
Differently Ethical
Ok, so if legal status isn't the criteria, what is?
Is this the criteria you're suggesting then? a thorough genital examination before admittance?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
No. I was questioning the statement.
It clearly isn't easy to deal with people who don't fit neatly into pre-made boxes. But given that difficultly, the one way you don't deal with it is by having inflexible rules. The result of that is what we see here - a person thrown under the bus by the system.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
I'd say that, in the case of people who have not yet, or who have chosen not to surgically transition, evidence of the person's history of gendered identity, plus psychological evaluation on a case by case basis would weed out any 'chancers'.
So that's maybe why they have ordered a custodial sentence this time rather than, say, an ASBO.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Thing is, it's not like it's even an easy and quick process if you're a trans person. It takes fucking years to get through it all, get the appropriate psych assessments, referrals, and legal paperwork, regardless of surgery, even privately.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
maybe it's because an asbo is the result of civil proceedings while she was in court on a criminal matter.
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
If you are going through the NHS and you travel from first psych appointment to full surgery in fewer than (say) 6 years, you are doing well.
Of course, if you have money, then you could get the job done privately in Thailand (or wherever) the day after tomorrow.
I was originally replying to DotCommunist's post. Thanks, though
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
A potentially very scary proposition that any trans person who hasn't legally completed the transition faces the danger of being sent to the *wrong* prison. That's the kind of thing people kill themselves over. 
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
You still need the psych assessments and referrals before you can get surgery quicker and privately in somewhere like Thailand.
And, as per this case, that won't help if you're legal paperwork hasn't been completed. The GRC is a reasonably weighty and costly document where you have to prove that you've transitioned for 2 years, have psych and doctors letters to back it all up. And it has to be assessed and sanctioned through an external panel (the GRP).
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i'd like to believe you but i can'tI was originally replying to DotCommunist's post. Thanks, though
No one is proposing that though.A potentially very scary proposition that any trans person who hasn't legally completed the transition faces the danger of being sent to the *wrong* prison. That's the kind of thing people kill themselves over.
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