Why do some feminists hate transgender people?
- Thread starter D'wards
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Really chilling, that is. The dangers facing transgender people come from the state as much as anyone. Would love to know what Greer would say about this case. 'Just cos he's cut off his dick...'
I thought that sort of shit had stopped (sending trans people to prison according to gender assigned at birth)
Or does it depend just what stage of transition someone's at?
The Metro version of the story as linked says "because passport".
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Not to mention 'longstanding policy' as if that were some kind of justification. They've got this wrong for ever! Well done.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
Ah.
I *think* you can at least now request a new birth certificate / passport (if so, it's only been allowed for the last 10 years or so) but no idea quite where in the process you have to be to do this.
When I was a bit more involved in LGBTetc stuff (early 90s) I'm pretty sure that as far as the law was concerned you were legally the gender you'd been assigned at birth no matter what.
Which did of course mean that a few same-sex couples could legally marry...
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Here's info on gender recognition procedure: Applying for a Gender Recognition Certificate - GOV.UK
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
Back in the day (late 1960s-1970s: once the gender clinic at Charing Cross had opened in 1968 and transsexualism was officially recognized), you could get a one-year passport with a letter from your doctor. This was renewable on a yearly basis until you had your operation then you could apply for a normal 10 year passport.
From 2004/5 they introduced the 'certificate' procedure and now you have to have the certificate before you get a passport.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
A psych letter is (or at least was a couple of years ago) still good enough for a passport to be issued. You don't need a GRC.
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
Yes, you're right. You can either present the gender certificate, the amended birth certificate or a doctor letter.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ing_for_a_passport_additional_information.PDF
Athos
Well-Known Member
How so? The idea I put forward, or the way I did it? Genuine question; will help me know for next time.
That's what it'd like you to think...
Athos
Well-Known Member
I alway imagined it as 'reeking.' Probably a musky sort of a smell.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Oh God, I can see this thread going the urban way. 
toggle
wobbly
to add to the discussion in the laws....
the change in the law t allow paperwork t be changed in 2004 removed any requirement for surgery. the key factors are a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and evidence of living as the 'chosen' gender for 2 years and no intent to 'change back'. and if someone wants to rewrite that in not-clumsy, please correct me.
particularly important for transmen, who are less likely to take genital surgical options because the surgery offered to them is less likely to produce a result that they consider satisfactory.
the downside of this seems to be that it's difficult to get the paperwork for some people and without it, there is not the flexibility that existed pre-2004.
the change in the law t allow paperwork t be changed in 2004 removed any requirement for surgery. the key factors are a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and evidence of living as the 'chosen' gender for 2 years and no intent to 'change back'. and if someone wants to rewrite that in not-clumsy, please correct me.
particularly important for transmen, who are less likely to take genital surgical options because the surgery offered to them is less likely to produce a result that they consider satisfactory.
the downside of this seems to be that it's difficult to get the paperwork for some people and without it, there is not the flexibility that existed pre-2004.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Athos, I can't speak for others but hazard a guess that this:
Your choice of definition may be well intentioned but it sounds patronising because you (honestly) include your reservations. To express any reservations here makes it sound as if you're tolerating rather than openly accepting. Reservations almost cancel out acceptance. But you make an excellent point about what's important here: the health and safety of trans women is paramount.
There will be others sharper than me who will have much less forgiving remarks.
is what gets people's backs up before they read this:
Plus your view of what contemporary feminist discourse should concentrate on may not be welcomed by contemporary feminists of any stripe. They are quite capable of discerning that for themselves. BTW, last I heard you don't have to be a woman to be a feminist.
Your choice of definition may be well intentioned but it sounds patronising because you (honestly) include your reservations. To express any reservations here makes it sound as if you're tolerating rather than openly accepting. Reservations almost cancel out acceptance. But you make an excellent point about what's important here: the health and safety of trans women is paramount.
There will be others sharper than me who will have much less forgiving remarks.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
"I think feminists should just calm down." - a man.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Was it TERFs who took exception to what Athos said? I just can't keep up.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
I thought that sort of shit had stopped (sending trans people to prison according to gender assigned at birth)
Or does it depend just what stage of transition someone's at?
I think it comes down to the judge. Whose obviously wrong in this case.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Magistrates. Need I say more?
No, but you might agree that TERFs need to tone down the rhetoric?
Thora
Differently Ethical
Thanks for this article, it's been really helpful in clarifying for me the way "terf" and accusations of transphobia are being used to silence women who don't share the 'right' view of gender. This in particular: "Lisa posted a link to this on her twitter:
Comment: The attack on Germaine Greer shows identity politics has become a cult
Just to ramp things up a bit more
There are people who believe that trans women are women, and there are transphobic bigots who "deny trans people's right to exist". No intermediate position is possible"
When even transwomen are abused and told to kill themselves for committing thoughtcrime then it seems it is more about maintaining ideological purity than anything else.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
How did they even find out she was trans? If she had committed some horrendous crime I could see someone wanting to make her life as miserable as possible ,but, she didn't so it just looks like stupidity.
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
She's pre-op.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
No one has asked Germaine Greer whether she'd be in favour of sending Tara to a male prison.
It's a bit different from lecturing at a Cambridge women's college. I reckon she'd take the Athos option. Not sure what I am saying here except that there may be lots of people feeling their way to a less doctrinaire position.
It's a bit different from lecturing at a Cambridge women's college. I reckon she'd take the Athos option. Not sure what I am saying here except that there may be lots of people feeling their way to a less doctrinaire position.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
I'd have thought it's down to the home office / prison service (or whatever it's called this week) - don't think judges / magistrates have the power to say 'I'm sending you to this particular clink' or would have the power specifically to sentence someone to the 'wrong' sort of prison.
defence solicitor / counsel might well have pointed out in mitigation what the consequences of a custodial sentence would be in this case and the beak may have chosen to ignore that
maybe the lesson here is that trans people should make sure they have their 'official' paperwork up to date in case they get sent down
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Tbh that article just highlights for me how disingenuous Greer is being. 'It's just an opinion' says probably the single most famous feminist in the UK (bet if you asked in the street for people to name a feminist, her name would be the clear winner). No it's not just an opinion - it's a position that she is using her status to put into the public domain, and she is doing so in a deliberately crass way that simply ignores whole aspects of questions of identity, in particular the psychological aspect.
Because the investigating officers will have looked at her details.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Thought the article said she had had 6 years of surgery so assumed the surgery was finished anyway if she lives as a woman send her to a female jail.
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