Who will be the next Labour leader?

[killer b]

Again: a substantial majority want some form of (European) freedom of movement.

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whatukthinks.org

 

[Pickman's model]

Newsnight debate last night, all candidates want to see some form of FOM post Brexit. They just lost a large amount of seats largely due to that policy

and that alone i suppose.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

that's just not true with the LP. The debate has been had over several years and has, overwhelmingly, been conducted convivially and without rancour. The idea that any discussion is immediately 'shut down' is just a fib propounded by those who lost.

Well there you go. Difference of opinion. I first came across the term ‘terf’ at the London Anarchist Bookfair in 2017. I have been active in politics (Green, Anarchist, Anti-War etc) for more than 40 years, outside of London. Before 2017 I had encountered no discussion or debate on the issue. The ‘T’ had been added to the ‘LGB’ without most people noticing or realising what it meant. Most lefty types in my neck of the woods still have no idea. So it’s not that the debate has been held. Out of the blue, so far as many are concerned, the slogan ‘Trans women are women’ is being recited as gospel. No-one should be surprised if that statement is openly and honestly questioned. To suggest that women should be expelled from the Labour Party unless they unequivocally conform to the new revelation will go down badly, I predict. (My predictions don’t always come true)

 

[killer b]

It's true, this debate simply hasn't been had over and over ad infinitum - here on urban it's just not happened across multiple rancorous threads that everyone's put on ignore because really, shut the fuck up. Now, and here on the Labour leadership thread, is the time to finally get it into the open.

 

[co-op]

that's just not true with the LP. The debate has been had over several years and has, overwhelmingly, been conducted convivially and without rancour. The idea that any discussion is immediately 'shut down' is just a fib propounded by those who lost.

You are seriously detached from reality if you think this!

 

[belboid]

Well there you go. Difference of opinion. I first came across the term ‘terf’ at the London Anarchist Bookfair in 2017. I have been active in politics (Green, Anarchist, Anti-War etc) for more than 40 years, outside of London. Before 2017 I had encountered no discussion or debate on the issue. The ‘T’ had been added to the ‘LGB’ without most people noticing or realising what it meant. Most lefty types in my neck of the woods still have no idea. So it’s not that the debate has been held. Out of the blue, so far as many are concerned, the slogan ‘Trans women are women’ is being recited as gospel. No-one should be surprised if that statement is openly and honestly questioned. To suggest that women should be expelled from the Labour Party unless they unequivocally conform to the new revelation will go down badly, I predict. (My predictions don’t always come true)

lol, you hadn't noticed a debate so it never happened. The 'T' got added decades ago, its just not true that its a recent thing. Your obliviousness is your problem, not trans peoples'.

 

[belboid]

You are seriously detached from reality if you think this!

and you aren't in the Labour Party any more, so how would you know? Some shite on twitter??

 

[Rob Ray]

The ‘T’ had been added to the ‘LGB’ without most people noticing or realising what it meant.

I hear the entirety of London Pride was shocked into silence by the sudden eruption of trans people from every manhole cover back in 2016, splattering lurid T symbols on every flag they could reach.

Before then, as we know, they were living in sewers and tunnels under the city, invisible to us all other than via rumours of wrecked and devastated Tube station loos, covered in glitter and beard shavings.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Joins thread late. I'll get a say via my union on the leader. It was because of what I read here on urb that I voted for Corbyn last time. I recall someone said Corbyn had 'a snowballs change in hell' of winning.

I've been avoiding reading as its been all to depressing and haven't got a clue about any of them except I wouldn't vote for Long-bailey. Her giving giving Corbyn 10/10 showed she wasn't learning anything from him losting an election against a stupid bunch of toffs.

Can you remind me who is still in the running here, pref with a brief synopisis of of why anyone would want to vote for any of them?

 

[co-op]

why anyone would want to vote for any of them?

They're all rubbish. Really quite outstandingly bad.

 

[co-op]

and you aren't in the Labour Party any more, so how would you know? Some shite on twitter??

That's right I left this week, I saw great chunks of the debate played out over years. I mean I know it's very important to believe that every single thing that any GC person says is WRONG but I think any half-intelligent person could see that this might be possible. Maybe you don't quite get over that bar?

 

[belboid]

That's right I left this week, I saw great chunks of the debate played out over years. I mean I know it's very important to believe that every single thing that any GC person says is WRONG but I think any half-intelligent person could see that this might be possible. Maybe you don't quite get over that bar?

not many examples there. Thedebates at LP conference? AT womens conference? Held passionately, but openly. Same in the vast majority of branches. It blew up in Hornsey and one other (Brighton) where Womens Place organised particularly hard. Perhaps that says something about them rather than those evil 'trans activists'.

You lost the argument, get over it.

 

[Spandex]

Can you remind me who is still in the running here, pref with a brief synopisis of of why anyone would want to vote for any of them?

The current list in full:

Sir Kier Starmer, QC - Ed Milliband with a knighthood.

Rebecca Long-Bailey - the only reason I can see for RLB is that, wanting to connect with the northern working class, Team Corbyn picked a random woman off the street in Manchester and made her their candidate.

Hyacinth Bucket - unlikely to get on the final ballot.

Lisa Nandy - personable, speaks some sense, keeps saying the sort of things Blair said before he got elected

 

[brogdale]

Lisa Nandy....keeps saying the sort of things Blair said before he got elected

Yes, she doesn't appear to much like the Labour Party.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

You lost the argument, get over it.

Now where have I heard that before?

 

[brogdale]

One thing worth noting...in the 2016 Leadership contest 52% of CLPs nominated a candidate...but this time around it looks like there'll be a 98%+ 'turnout' of CLPs nominating.
Looks like the membership are engaged by the 'battle for the soul of the party'.

 

[co-op]

You lost the argument, get over it.

I'd have lost my job if I'd even have joined in the argument and said what I thought. Luckily the Labour Party is going to be irrelevant for at least a decade, more likely for ever, so right now I don't give a shit - it means nothing at all in practise.

I'm more just astonished at watching this parade of idiocy from the candidates. It's like a sitcom set in some 1970s/80s trot micro-cult "party". Bizarre.

 

[co-op]

Anyway, let's not talk about it, top-trending twitter tag for a day was expelme, a hashtag aimed explicitly at the labour leadership issue and we're on an 80 page thread on the labour leadership issue but y'know, maybe if we all just ignore it we can pretend it didn't happen. I'll stop posting right here.

 

[killer b]

You know this is an election with a constituency of Labour Party members and supporters don't you? That's who the candidates are trying to appeal to, not the public at large who are, for the most part, not paying any attention.

 

[belboid]

Anyway, let's not talk about it, top-trending twitter tag for a day was expelme, a hashtag aimed explicitly at the labour leadership issue and we're on an 80 page thread on the labour leadership issue but y'know, maybe if we all just ignore it we can pretend it didn't happen. I'll stop posting right here.

omg a 24 hour twitter storm! How could anyone ignore such a thing?

 

[Rob Ray]

People who think political Twitter storms mean something: Some political wonks

People who think political Twitter storms are basically just wonks having a wank: Everyone else, and a good chunk of the less impressionable (or non-Tweeting) political wonks.

 

[Jennastan]

To suggest that women should be expelled from the Labour Party unless they unequivocally conform to the new revelation will go down badly, I predict. (My predictions don’t always come true)

Firstly, its not just women who it is being suggested should be expelled for transphobia - and its quite dishonest of you to frame it like that - but all transphobes who can't keep their arsery to themselves.
And as far as I can tell most women are supportive of trans people and most men aren't. I've seen the same split in social media and in at least one national poll - women broadly supportive and men broadly seem to have a problem, specifically, with trans women.
So anyway - nice to see the same old pattern of transphobes who can't even stick to the facts and don't want to. Also are all transphobes working from a script right now? Or have you been taken over by some sort of right wing, conservative mind control device?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Firstly, its not just women who it is being suggested should be expelled for transphobia - and its quite dishonest of you to frame it like that - but all transphobes who can't keep their arsery to themselves.
And as far as I can tell most women are supportive of trans people and most men aren't. I've seen the same split in social media and in at least one national poll - women broadly supportive and men broadly seem to have a problem, specifically, with trans women.
So anyway - nice to see the same old pattern of transphobes who can't even stick to the facts and don't want to. Also are all transphobes working from a script right now? Or have you been taken over by some sort of right wing, conservative mind control device?

I referred to women as the target of these proposed measures too carelessly I admit, but not out of dishonesty. It’s just that my experience is that it is overwhelmingly women who are campaigning on this issue, e.g. Women’s Place UK. As for keeping arsery to myself, I presume you mean opinions, or even just questions. Well that’s not going to happen, nor should it, particularly on a discussion forum.

It’s also far too typical to dish out accusations of transphobia with no justification. You then follow it up with slurs about right-wing mindsets etc. This is all too reminiscent of accusations of anti-semitism in the Labour Party. Lots of accusations, little to back them up, lack of clarity and definition and no discussion.

Nice to hear from you.

 

[friendofdorothy]

My union unite are asking my opinion, but apart from thinking RLB is daft I haven't even heard of any of the any of the potential duputies. Any one got an opinion to spare?

Labour Leadership Election Survey

The Labour Party is holding elections for the Leadership and Deputy Leadership positions.

As a Unite affiliated supporter, you have a vote in these elections. Please use the questions below to let us know who you plan to support.

Unite's Executive Council voted to support Rebecca Long-Bailey to be Leader, and for Richard Burgon to be Deputy Leader.

Who would your first preference for Leader be?

Rebecca Long-Bailey

Lisa Nandy

Keir Starmer

Emily Thornberry


Who would your first preference for Deputy Leader be?

Rosena Allin-Khan

Richard Burgon

Dawn Butler

Ian Murray

Angela Rayner

oryx any guidance?

 

[two sheds]

Yes I got that too

<puts pin away>

 

[friendofdorothy]

Yes I got that too

<puts pin away>

I haven't done the survey yet - as it doesn't have 'no idea' option.

 

[two sheds]

Well I'm still leaning to RBS but I've heard this morning that she's changing her name which just seems a pointless exercise and shifting deckchairs. Can't she just focus on policy that is important to all of us ...

 

[andysays]

I also got that email from Unite today.

Seems a little odd they're asking this now, they didn't feel it necessary to consult the membership before backing RLB.

I also don't remember them asking this question last time round, though I might just have forgotten

 

[friendofdorothy]

Can't remember what happened last time. The union may be backing RLB, but don't we get our own individual vote anyway?

 

[moochedit]

Richard Burgon wants Labour to sell papers swappie-style

Labour should print free tabloid-style newspaper for commuters, says Richard Burgon

Labour should print its own “tabloid-style” free newspaper to hand out to commuters, according to Richard Burgon.

www.politicshome.com