Who will be the next Labour leader?

[chilango]

I'm watching RLB on Novara at the moment

It's not good.

 

[LDC]

I'm watching RLB on Novara at the moment

It's not good.

Will watch that later today. Did you see Dawn Butler on there? She came off well I thought (although pox on all their houses etc etc.).

 

[brogdale]

I'm watching RLB on Novara at the moment

It's not good.

Doubly not good if the alternatives are son of Blair, Blue Labour's woman in the North and Lady Rochester.

 

[chilango]

Will watch that later today. Did you see Dawn Butler on there? She came off well I thought (although pox on all their houses etc etc.).

Good luck. I don't think I'll make it to the half hour mark. It's really dull. It's only homesickness for the accent that's keeping me listening.

Yeah, I saw Butler on there. She was at least watchable/listenable.

 

[LDC]

I can't cope with Bastani tbh, he makes me want to throw my laptop through the window. Yeah, fuck she's dull.

 

[chilango]

Actually made it through the whole thing. In fairness to RLB I warmed to her at the end when she was doing the "quick fire questions" and just answered instinctively.

But Leader of the Labour Party? Facing the same sort of attacks as Corbyn from all sides? Can't see it.

At least with Starmer I won't care.

 

[chilango]

I can't cope with Bastani tbh, he makes me want to throw my laptop through the window.

The Rod Liddle of the 2030s.

 

[Wilf]

The Rod Liddle of the 2030s.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I'm watching RLB on Novara at the moment

It's not good.

As we have have established TyskySour - middle class students with bad MA's and a crass reductionist set of ideas - isn't my idea of fun. But I will give this a watch purely because RLB seems to be being kept away from the mainstream media. I wonder how much of this is about trying to campaign in a different way, go over the heads of the media and talk directly to activists etc and how much of it is about keeping how dull and wooden she is under wraps?

Now, I'm not much of a fan of Paul Masin either but he is right when he writes " Despite their differences, the choices of Gordon Brown, Ed Miliband and then Corbyn as leader were underpinned by the same fatal assumption. As long as the leader is able to competently present the economic offer, their accent, style, integrity, honesty and cultural values are secondary. The 2019 election result showed that this world has passed. The new alliance of conservatism and the far right can win any election it wants to, in England and Wales, until Labour finds a leader who can both represent the values of progressive Britain and then reach across the cultural divide to attract those who don’t share those values. And that’s why, in the current leadership election, I am focused on the leadership qualities of the contenders first,

If you accept that analysis - and Mason like a stopped clock is right twice a day - then RLB would be a disaster.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

If Labour dont win - and they probably won’t- it’ll be because none of the candidates are scummy enough for the British public who just returned a huge landslide for some of the most repulsive mob of charlatans ever elected to these shores. The scabs and scum who voted for the Boris regime are not worthy to lick RLB’s boots.

 

[butchersapron]

I really do blame chris morris now, not adam curtis any longer. A generation ruined.

 

[andysays]

If Labour dont win - and they probably won’t- it’ll be because none of the candidates are scummy enough for the British public who just returned a huge landslide for some of the most repulsive mob of charlatans ever elected to these shores. The scabs and scum who voted for the Boris regime are not worthy to lick RLB’s boots.

The non-ironic Brechtian alienation still going strong, I see

 

[Jeff Robinson]

The non-ironic Brechtian alienation still going strong, I see

Victory is always possible for the person who refuses to stop fighting

 

[Shechemite]

If Labour dont win - and they probably won’t- it’ll be because none of the candidates are scummy enough for the British public who just returned a huge landslide for some of the most repulsive mob of charlatans ever elected to these shores. The scabs and scum who voted for the Boris regime are not worthy to lick RLB’s boots.

Yeah, the problem with the Labour Party is that it’s not scummy enough

 

[Mr Moose]

As we have have established TyskySour - middle class students with bad MA's and a crass reductionist set of ideas - isn't my idea of fun. But I will give this a watch purely because RLB seems to be being kept away from the mainstream media. I wonder how much of this is about trying to campaign in a different way, go over the heads of the media and talk directly to activists etc and how much of it is about keeping how dull and wooden she is under wraps?

Now, I'm not much of a fan of Paul Masin either but he is right when he writes " Despite their differences, the choices of Gordon Brown, Ed Miliband and then Corbyn as leader were underpinned by the same fatal assumption. As long as the leader is able to competently present the economic offer, their accent, style, integrity, honesty and cultural values are secondary. The 2019 election result showed that this world has passed. The new alliance of conservatism and the far right can win any election it wants to, in England and Wales, until Labour finds a leader who can both represent the values of progressive Britain and then reach across the cultural divide to attract those who don’t share those values. And that’s why, in the current leadership election, I am focused on the leadership qualities of the contenders first,

If you accept that analysis - and Mason like a stopped clock is right twice a day - then RLB would be a disaster.

Saying so, since Ed’s time, has been construed as Blairite plotting. Yet it’s been evident since Brown and his ‘bigoted woman’ comment.

If it signals people not getting into positions about the leadership that ended up with Corbyn’s drubbing then good.

But it’s also fair to say that whatever the qualities of the leader they will struggle to break through whatever construction the media chooses to make of them. Starmer will be too posh, too metro, Nandy will be something sexist, too pushy, too tarty, feminazi whatever and Long Bailey will be forever triangulated to Corbyn.

To counter this the leader has to be manufactured by Labour too, with a simple message, probably on the cost of living. If it doesn’t get traction then they must be disposable. It’s only the Labour leader after all.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Yeah, the problem with the Labour Party is that it’s not scummy enough

It is an electoral problem for them certainly, as witnessed by four consecutive victories for the Tory vermin.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Victory is always possible for the person who refuses to stop fighting

One of those things that sounds good until you spend 0.00000001 seconds actually thinking about it. What if I refused to stop fighting, I dunno, a volcano?

 

[Shechemite]

You can’t lose if you don’t play

 

[killer b]

TBF to Jeff there's no escaping from the fact that the only electorally successful Labour leader of the last 40-odd years is an absolute bastard.

 

[Mr Moose]

TBF to Jeff there's no escaping from the fact that the only electorally successful Labour leader of the last 40-odd years is an absolute bastard.

He was never going to be a great socialist, but he didn’t particularly seem so much of a bastard at the point of his first election.

Ed wasn’t much of a bastard, but occasionally liked to pretend he could be, just to jog along with the mood, but didn’t convince anyone he would be good at being nice or being a bastard.

Maybe Labour needs to put up someone who seems like an utter bastard and turns out not to be. Or on the other hand maybe just someone who isn’t one at all.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Maybe Labour needs to put up someone who seems like an utter bastard and turns out not to be. Or on the other hand maybe just someone who isn’t one at all.

Identifying what Labour needs is a piece of piss - look at the figures who are popular in mass culture. All of them are believed to be 'against the grain', controversial, against insiders, honest and speakers of their own minds, charismatic, funny and emote specialists.

Labour's problem is that none of their rank resemble this in the slightest. Jess Philips tried but faltered on the alter of authenticity and the death rattle of her centrist politics. Even if someone like this did exist they'd be slaughtered by their own Party.

 

[killer b]

All of them are believed to be 'against the grain', controversial, against insiders, honest and speakers of their own minds, charismatic, funny and emote specialists.

Come back George Galloway

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Get Russell Brand in, obv.

 

[killer b]

I'm not sure about the 'honest' bit, mind. All the successful populist pols I can think of have a rep for being bare faced liars.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I'm not sure about the 'honest' bit, mind. All the successful populist pols I can think of have a rep for being bare faced liars.

'Honest' here tends to mean 'deliberately offensive' doesn't it. It doesn't matter that what Trump says isn't actually true, it's 'honest' in the sense of 'says what he's really thinking, doesn't care who he upsets' sense.

 

[kabbes]

The party machine filters out the mavericks before they get within a mile of being an MP, let alone the leadership race

 

[Mr Moose]

Identifying what Labour needs is a piece of piss - look at the figures who are popular in mass culture. All of them are believed to be 'against the grain', controversial, against insiders, honest and speakers of their own minds, charismatic, funny and emote specialists.

Labour's problem is that none of their rank resemble this in the slightest. Jess Philips tried but faltered on the alter of authenticity and the death rattle of her centrist politics. Even if someone like this did exist they'd be slaughtered by their own Party.

I’m not sure Labour could play that game. In any case, Trump and Farage with enormous backing got their populism only very narrowly over the line. It’s easy to ahistorically see inevitability, but they could have slipped. And there are too many snags for Labour. Its loudmouths would get called out every day and lack the media to give them direct conduit to the people and build opinion.

What may be more important is to offer an alternative whatever that is. Had Labour had a politician who looks obviously looks like a politician in the public consciousness at the helm this time it may have done better. A Labour populist may have done better against an obvious career smoothie like Cameron.

I’m not advocating this, most professional politicians are born liars, but you can’t simply invent a maverick. Some may think they are shooting from the hip, but most of the public would just see Jess Phillips.

But in the end the pool is so small you can’t nuance the factors too far. The obviously better communicator and leader should win.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Identifying what Labour needs is a piece of piss - look at the figures who are popular in mass culture. All of them are believed to be 'against the grain', controversial, against insiders, honest and speakers of their own minds, charismatic, funny and emote specialists.

Labour's problem is that none of their rank resemble this in the slightest. Jess Philips tried but faltered on the alter of authenticity and the death rattle of her centrist politics. Even if someone like this did exist they'd be slaughtered by their own Party.

Being white, male, rich, racist, misogynist and an utterly reactionary cunt seems to be the winning formula.

 

[redsquirrel]

If Labour dont win - and they probably won’t- it’ll be because none of the candidates are scummy enough for the British public who just returned a huge landslide for some of the most repulsive mob of charlatans ever elected to these shores. The scabs and scum who voted for the Boris regime are not worthy to lick RLB’s boots.

Do you have any politics beyond this weird horrible misanthropy you've retreated into. IMO accusations of ideological purity are usually an excuse to dismiss real political differences and an attempt to enforce a false unity. But in your case you really do seem to have been sucked into a whirlpool of ideological purity - those that vote Tory are scum, the right wing of the LP are scum, those to the left of the LP are wrong/fools.

How do you actually see your political desires been brought about when most of humanity is scum and/or fools?

 

[killer b]

People who vote tory are fucking scabs tbf. I probably wouldn't say that to their face unless they were family or on here, mind.