Who will be the next Labour leader?

[JimW]

Did Magna Carta die in vain?

 

[brogdale]

Did Magna Carta die in vain?

Appropriately retro for the day.

 

[killer b]

The SWP stopped putting an emphasis on political education in favour of activism around 25 years ago.

Just to be clear, I think political education is great and there should be more of it in the Labour Party. I just think its absurd to expect any huge depth of knowledge of party history in a mass-membership political party.

 

[Red Cat]

Just to be clear, I think political education is great and there should be more of it in the Labour Party. I just think its absurd to expect any huge depth of knowledge of party history in a mass-membership political party.

Especially when much of that history is probably a bit dull. Much more fun learning about revolutions.

 

[kebabking]

Just to be clear, I think political education is great and there should be more of it in the Labour Party. I just think its absurd to expect any huge depth of knowledge of party history in a mass-membership political party.

I'm not sure that 'depth of knowledge' is the phrase - we're talking about 500,000 people out of 65 million knowing about the achievements of the Atlee and Heath goverments, the two of which (and whisper it, Blair's) are pretty much the sum total of Labours achievements in its history.

This is, in political terms, grass-is-green, sky-is-blue, shoelaces stuff - it is not obscure details found in dusty times.

 

[redsquirrel]

Always vital to have at the forefront of our minds that the Labour’s poor election performance was 100% the fault of the cunts who were vile and/or stupid enough to vote for the Boris regime. We must never forget nor forgive their appalling conduct.

I'm not sure if this is just some rhetorical point or if you've just decided to throw away any class analysis whatsoever.

 

[imposs1904]

Dunno if swappies/IS the same but SP rules was don't read the weekly paper, that's for punters, but the monthly magazine was a must

Nobody read the weekly paper.

 

[redsquirrel]

24% for the traitor Macdonald, do they know anything about him, the Means Tests, etc?

What kb said earlier. 48% of LP members are unfamiliar with him.

The spectacle of an utter no-mark like yourself denouncing as a traitor one of the (by no means unflawed) giants of working class and social-democratic politics is perhaps in indicator of the achievement of Societal Peak Lunacy.

Christ I knew you were on the right of the LP but defending MacDonald. FFS. Treelover is bang on.

 

[killer b]

I'm not sure that 'depth of knowledge' is the phrase - we're talking about 500,000 people out of 65 million knowing about the achievements of the Atlee and Heath goverments, the two of which (and whisper it, Blair's) are pretty much the sum total of Labours achievements in its history.

This is, in political terms, grass-is-green, sky-is-blue, shoelaces stuff - it is not obscure details found in dusty times.

Well, the membership are who they are, although they've obviously lost your confidence. Perhaps it's time to dissolve the membership and elect another one?

 

[Red Cat]

I'm not sure that 'depth of knowledge' is the phrase - we're talking about 500,000 people out of 65 million knowing about the achievements of the Atlee and Heath goverments, the two of which (and whisper it, Blair's) are pretty much the sum total of Labours achievements in its history.

This is, in political terms, grass-is-green, sky-is-blue, shoelaces stuff - it is not obscure details found in dusty times.

It probably seems quite dusty if you're 25.

 

[Idris2002]

I'm not sure that 'depth of knowledge' is the phrase - we're talking about 500,000 people out of 65 million knowing about the achievements of the Atlee and Heath goverments, the two of which (and whisper it, Blair's) are pretty much the sum total of Labours achievements in its history.

This is, in political terms, grass-is-green, sky-is-blue, shoelaces stuff - it is not obscure details found in dusty times.

Heath's government was a Labour achievement?

 

[killer b]

oh lol. perfect.

TBF I think considering we've got 5 years (at least) of a large Tory majority ahead of us, if we're going to demand the Labour membership learn some party history then perhaps the municipal political victories of Lansbury should be what the the Labour Political Education Bureau should be focusing on, rather than just repeating by rote the gains of '45-51.

 

[kebabking]

...Christ I knew you were on the right of the LP but defending MacDonald. FFS. Treelover is bang on.

Vacuous crap completely devoid of nuance, or indeed wit.

Macdonald spent pretty much his entire adult life in left wing politics of various flavours - certainly 45 years in the LP and it's predecessors - he did some good things, and he did some bad things - his life, and his times were complex. His story is one of highs and lows, of great political achievements and appalling moral and political failures.

By all means take a view on his life, but only a total fuckwit would think it could be summed up on one word - except, perhaps, over.

 

[kebabking]

Heath's government was a Labour achievement?

Christ knows why his name was in my head - Wilson, of course Wilson...

 

[redsquirrel]

Vacuous crap completely devoid of nuance, or indeed wit.

When did you actually join the LP?

 

[The39thStep]

I'm not sure if this is just some rhetorical point or if you've just decided to throw away any class analysis whatsoever.

How dare the working class let Labour down

 

[imposs1904]

oh lol. perfect.

TBF I think considering we've got 5 years (at least) of a large Tory majority ahead of us, if we're going to demand the Labour membership learn some party history then perhaps the municipal political victories of Lansbury should be what the the Labour Political Education Bureau should be focusing on, rather than just repeating by rote the gains of '45-51.

Are you referring to Poplarism or do you mean Morrison?

 

[killer b]

Yeah, Poplarism. Looks like Liverpool might already be getting in on that, mind.

 

[redsquirrel]

kebabking If you are going to criticise the current LP membership for it's politics go ahead but the centre of gravity of the LP at the moment is far closer to the historic centre of gravity of the party (taking into account changes in society as a whole, e.g. it is of course much more socially liberal than it would have been in the past) then the period that you were a member.

If you don't see how your support (reluctant or otherwise) of MacDonald &Blair, the focus on the LP being in government etc put you on the right of the party, both in terms of the present membership and historically, then frankly I don't think you are in much of a position to be criticising the the lack of knowledge of some of its present members.

 

[kebabking]

When did you actually join the LP?

1993.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I'm not sure if this is just some rhetorical point or if you've just decided to throw away any class analysis whatsoever.

My analysis has tonnes of class.

 

[kebabking]

kebabking If you are going to criticise the current LP membership for it's politics go ahead but the centre of gravity of the LP at the moment is far closer to the historic centre of gravity of the party (taking into account changes in society as a whole, e.g. it is of course much more socially liberal than it would have been in the past) then the period that you were a member.

If you don't see how your support (reluctant or otherwise) of MacDonald &Blair, the focus on the LP being in government etc put you on the right of the party, both in terms of the present membership and historically, then frankly I don't think you are in much of a position to be criticising the the lack of knowledge of some of its present members.

I'm not sure what my politics have to do with LP member's having, apparently, little understanding of the history of the party.

Atlee was a giant, Hardie was a giant, Bevan was a giant, Wilson was a giant, Blair was a giant, MacDonald was a giant, Kinnock and Brown were giants - all were flawed, all brought advancements and all made errors, big ones.

All of them are vastly bigger than a one word epithet on a bulletin board.

 

[Serge Forward]

Giant yes but giant what?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Kinnock a giant, do me a favour hahahaha fucking kinnock man

 

[Proper Tidy]

Get in the sea you inadequate sweaty ginger prick

Edit kinnock this is btw, not slagging anybody on here. Kinnock a giant though, great stuff

 

[brogdale]

I'm not sure what my politics have to do with LP member's having, apparently, little understanding of the history of the party.

Atlee was a giant, Hardie was a giant, Bevan was a giant, Wilson was a giant, Blair was a giant, MacDonald was a giant, Kinnock and Brown were giants - all were flawed, all brought advancements and all made errors, big ones.

All of them are vastly bigger than a one word epithet on a bulletin board.

If Clem was such a giant, how come you can't spell his name correctly?

 

[redsquirrel]

Atlee was a giant, Hardie was a giant, Bevan was a giant, Wilson was a giant, Blair was a giant, MacDonald was a giant, Kinnock and Brown were giants - all were flawed, all brought advancements and all made errors, big ones.

Sorry but that's vomit inducing, bad as some royalist claptrap.

 

[Proper Tidy]

 

[kebabking]

Sorry but that's vomit inducing, bad as some royalist claptrap.

I look forward to reading your political biography...

 

[yield]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I don't believe in the parliamentary road to socialism.

If they've any sense it'll be Lisa Nandy. I think they'll vote for Keir Starmer.