what no annual poppy bunfight thread?

[frogwoman]

Also, Next had a sign in their window asking customers to join a minutes silence on tues

Fair enough if someone wants to join in but it's a bit shit if you go to a shop at 11am and get looked at funny for wanting to buy a pair of shoes. The enforced aspect and fact it's becoming increasingly hyped up and seized upon into a symbol of English nationalism is a bit worrying imo

I never had a problem with it before by the way

 

[frogwoman]

It just seems to me to be encouraging war these days whereas I never remember it being like that before.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It just seems to me to be encouraging war these days whereas I never remember it being like that before.

It's changed a lot in the last 20 years, I think. It used to be far more low-key. In part, I suspect this is because marketing bods have become involved at the BL, finding new ways to get poppies everywhere. I noticed a London bus covered in poppies the other day. Tastefully done, of course.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Also, Next had a sign in their window asking customers to join a minutes silence on tues

Fair enough if someone wants to join in but it's a bit shit if you go to a shop at 11am and get looked at funny for wanting to buy a pair of shoes. The enforced aspect and fact it's becoming increasingly hyped up and seized upon into a symbol of English nationalism is a bit worrying imo

I never had a problem with it before by the way

I got asked, by another member of staff, to make an announcement for it. I said we'd mark 11am "for those that wish to observe Remembrance Sunday", but if anyone had wanted to be served I would have served them.

Felt a bit awkward sitting checking my emails while my other two colleagues stood in reverential silence; I tried to click very quietly

 

[weltweit]

It's changed a lot in the last 20 years, I think. ..

Can't say I have noticed, the ceremony at the cenotaph seems relatively unchanged.
Are you sure you are not noticing changes because of the centenary of WWI?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Can't say I have noticed, the ceremony at the cenotaph seems relatively unchanged.
Are you sure you are not noticing changes because of the centenary of WWI?

Yes. Very sure. I'm not talking about the ceremony.

 

[likesfish]

Tbf if your going to do the minutes silence reminding people that its 11 o'clock
Seems reasonable enough people gabbing through the silence rather ruins the effect.
it is only a minute

 

[Lord Camomile]

Can't say I have noticed, the ceremony at the cenotaph seems relatively unchanged.

There's a bit more to it than the cenotaph these days!

Poppies on football shirts, poppies on football boots, poppies on DLR trains, poppies on pizzas apparently! Moral outrage if someone in the public view isn't wearing a poppy, and like Christmas it seems to get earlier every year.

It feels like for many it's become a thing to be superior about, or "I'm more reverential than thou". It's starting to get a bit fetishised...

 

[likesfish]

The bbc hands poppys to every celeb regardless of nationality or belief rather people by their own.

 

[weltweit]

Well, I noticed pretty much everyone on a BBC show last week and perhaps before were wearing a poppy, as if it was a clause in their appearance contract. That certainly did seem a bit false.

 

[Lo Siento.]

It's changed a lot in the last 20 years, I think. It used to be far more low-key. In part, I suspect this is because marketing bods have become involved at the BL, finding new ways to get poppies everywhere. I noticed a London bus covered in poppies the other day. Tastefully done, of course.

This often happens with invented traditions during periods of heightened nationalism. You take stuff that people did in a low key way before and hype the shit out of it and if anyone asks why, you turn round and say "what? we always did this..."

 

[frogwoman]

Well a similar thing is going on in Russia at the moment with the St George Ribbon, which began as a remembrance for Russias wars, it's now become that anyone who doesn't wear it is a Nazi...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Germans are fortunate not to have a military history of which they are supposed to be proud.

 

[likesfish]

Well, I noticed pretty much everyone on a BBC show last week and perhaps before were wearing a poppy, as if it was a clause in their appearance contract. That certainly did seem a bit false.

Saw some american celeb on some talk show he had one pinned on him didnt have a clue what it was for .
Guess they dont want the daily mail going berserk because somebody didn't have a poppy on.

 

[weltweit]

Yes. Very sure. I'm not talking about the ceremony.

For me, the minutes silence on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the .. is important, a private moment where you can remember whatever or whoever you want .. In this year, the final remaining member of my Dad's WWII recce troop died at the ripe old age of 95. I will certainly think of him.

 

[Lord Camomile]

For me, the minutes silence on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the .. is important, a private moment where you can remember whatever or whoever you want .. In this year, the final remaining member of my Dad's WWII recce troop died at the ripe old age of 95. I will certainly think of him.

Which is fair enough, but as has been said upthread there's a hell of a lot more to it these days. There's a lot of pressure to join in, and if you don't then you're a certain wrong'un. As you said, folks on TV are all just being handed a poppy by producers without it being a personal choice, because they fear the backlash if they're not seen to be taking part.

The colleague who asked me to make announcement said she felt it would be immoral not to. Not even simply disrespectful, but immoral. Now, it could have been just a poor choice of words but I certainly took exception to it (though tried to be polite about it, obviously ).

 

[weltweit]

If remembrance it being pushed more, is it in part in response to greater demands from injured service people from Iraq and Afghanistan? And the centenary, is it not the reason for the poppy display at the tower?

As I have mentioned before, I don't live in the smoke, apart from seeing odd collections of people on the box wearing poppies, I haven't seen so much.

 

[weltweit]

.. The colleague who asked me to make announcement said she felt it would be immoral not to. Not even simply disrespectful, but immoral. Now, it could have been just a poor choice of words but I certainly took exception to it (though tried to be polite about it, obviously ).

Could be your colleague just had a problem expressing themselves clearly, certainly they had a problem expressing themselves persuasively in your case

 

[Greebo]

Which is fair enough, but as has been said upthread there's a hell of a lot more to it these days. There's a lot of pressure to join in, and if you don't then you're a certain wrong'un. As you said, folks on TV are all just being handed a poppy by producers without it being a personal choice, because they fear the backlash if they're not seen to be taking part. <snip>

IMHO one of the things fought for in WWII (AFAIK WWI was more about territory and treaties than anything else) was freedom of conscience, including the right to wear a poppy or not; enforced wearing and display is at odds with part of what those poppies should represent.

 

[DotCommunist]

the big ramping up of the jingo this year is the commemorating the start of the war which is just sick, they didn't give a flying about the people who they sent to war then and they don't now. You're a spade or a tyre to these people- when you break they get a new one. You can fuck off and beg help for heroes for a few quid cos your no use in this mans army etc.

That and casting ww1 as a just necessary war, well thats a massive piece of revisionism. We hardly got the 'bosses war' narrative at school but we were at least told it was a stupid waste!

Declaring victory as the last men pull out of afghanistan tail between legs. We have always been at war with eurasia.

Just like when we one iraq 2 and trained a world beating army of locals there to defend freedom that worked

 

[Lo Siento.]

If remembrance it being pushed more, is it in part in response to greater demands from injured service people from Iraq and Afghanistan? And the centenary, is it not the reason for the poppy display at the tower?

As I have mentioned before, I don't live in the smoke, apart from seeing odd collections of people on the box wearing poppies, I haven't seen so much.

Why would any of those be necessary for it to be pushed more? Governments like opportunities to push nationalism, charities like opportunities to push for more donations.

 

[rioted]

it is only a minute

Is it?

Took the grandkids to football Sunday afternoon: minutes silence and all the bollocks that goes with it. In the morning they'd been to play rugby - minutes silence and all the bollocks that goes with it. On Tuesday they have a minutes silence at school and all the bollocks that goes with it. How many minutes?

 

[butchersapron]

Is it?

Took the grandkids to football Sunday afternoon: minutes silence and all the bollocks that goes with it. In the morning they'd been to play rugby - minutes silence and all the bollocks that goes with it. On Tuesday they have a minutes silence at school and all the bollocks that goes with it. How many minutes?

Three.

I can see why you were a teacher. 3x1 =3. Relevant but critical questions.

 

[Pingu]

i think part of the increasing profile for it is that we now have people who have fought in more recent conflicts who are now no longer serving who have lost friends in those conflicts. The age range at the cenotaph i went to on Sunday was certainly younger than it was when i first started going in the 90s. Add in the various families of those who served in recent conflicts and who are still serving and the number of people who are directly affected by the idea behind remembrance has increased significantly

 

[dylanredefined]

So the millions of German dead (military & civilians) deserved what they got? On account of them being Krauts and all?

Whereas all the Allied dead deserved to be remembered and commemorated because they weren't dastardly Germans?



But only the loss on 'our' side, yeah?

Tell me at republican commemorations do they remember the British soldiers who died?

 

[dylanredefined]

yeah, the British don't invade their neighbours generally. Well not any more. Henry V did. The British prefer to invade, occupy, and subjugate farther afield nowadays.

And to dylan, if the idea of commemorating the Germans who were sent to their slaughter in WW1 makes you puke, you rather make the article writer's point for him.

The writer is basically hating the fact the British are doing something he doesn't like.
It is a national day of remembrance for the war dead of this nation. Not a fluffy day of war is bad m'kay.

 

[DotCommunist]

on another thread, this sites ex military were vehemently denying they had swallowed any propaganda in the army. Denying the existence of such a thing.

 

[likesfish]

Usually two minutes hardly the oath of alligence every morning is it.

 

[8ball]

It just seems to me to be encouraging war these days whereas I never remember it being like that before.

It would be on one of the bunfight threads but when someone on here posted up the pic of the kids stood around the massive poppy with t-shirts proudly saying 'future soldier' and another posted a link to the British Legion's 'corporate partnership' site offering companies 'synergy with patriotic feeling' (poss a misquote but that was the vibe) then I knew I was right in putting the poppy away a couple of years ago.

I wanted the symbol to be about remembering those lost in wars, but I wasn't going to wear a symbol that was involved in glorifying future ones.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Germans are fortunate not to have a military history of which they are supposed to be proud.

Even though they helped win the Battle of Waterloo and smash Boney.