Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
No, on the contrary, it's a pretty perfect statement of the ideology behind armies everywhere.
what no annual poppy bunfight thread?
- Thread starter Pingu
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weltweit
Well-Known Member
Armies? what about navies and air forces? anyhow despite that you believe our armed forces are political?
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
Yes. That's why I said "everywhere" and "ideology".
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
It's a bit silly though isn't it? "Oh they're not political, they just do whatever a political body tells them. Unless they decide to take their own decisions but that only happens in bad countries like, er, Egypt. They're only the armed wing that supports the politics of whoever commands them and enforces their will, and control is crucial to any group that wants to take political power, nothing political about that."
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I take it the flood defence workers were out on strike that dayHere we see the British army oppresing the workers
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I don't think Lo Siento. was saying the armed forces are bad, just that they are political.
It wasn't the armed forces that decided to invade the Faulklands, Afghanistan and Iraq, it was our politicians who decided, the armed forces did what they were told.
It wasn't the armed forces that decided to invade the Faulklands, Afghanistan and Iraq, it was our politicians who decided, the armed forces did what they were told.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Well that's a completely apolitical role then.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
As I already said, the UK armed forces serve the government which is elected by the people. Hopefully people will take electing a government seriously and vote as best they can.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
...I don't really want to be too sarcastic here, but I'm not quite sure how else to respond.
Oh, here's a possibility: even if you did think that the orders that the military got via parliament were a reflection of some sort of will of the people, that would still be a very political role.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Well the armed forces are an arm of the state.
Would you say the civil service is very political?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
...when a department enforces political decisions to, say, sanction welfare recipients, how are they not playing a political role?
When the police arrest political enemies of the state because those are the orders they're given, that's not a political role?
andysays
Love and solidarity
All the arms of the state are political to some extent, even the "nice" ones like the NHS.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
In a very similar way, they do what they are told by their political masters.
I don't really see why you and others are so keen to establish that the armed forces are political, why for example it is not enough that they are simply an arm of the state?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Being an arm of the state is by definition having a political role!
weltweit
Well-Known Member
And yet, when as likely will happen Milliband sweeps into No 10, the civil service, armed forces chiefs, NHS bosses etc will not be changed, they will simply serve the new master.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
And?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
And nothing, made my point thanks.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Obviously doing what you're told to enforce political decisions except if you really don't want to means you're completely not part of the process.
Oh am I being sarcastic again?
Oh am I being sarcastic again?
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
So doing what different politicians tell you means it's not political?
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
convicted neo nazi laying poppies yesterday
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/insider/a-national-disgrace-4117
Anyone who wishes may lay a wreath. There is no 'QC' unfortunately.
Can someone change so radically do you think, from racist fascist scum to 'ordinary'? A huge leap I think.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
We seem both happy that: the UK armed forces are an arm of the UK state.
In that endeavour they execute the decisions of whichever their political masters are at the time.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Do you work in the public sector? If so, what do you think guides your work? The tooth fairy?
Virtually every aspect of life is 'political' in one way or another.
Perhaps you should take some comfort that a change of government does not mean a wholesale resignation/recruitment cycle. Do you really want an army divided along party political lines. One of the strengths of the army is its ability to serve all governments equally.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Do you work in the public sector? If so, what do you think guides your work? The tooth fairy?
Virtually every aspect of life is 'political' in one way or another.
Perhaps you should take some comfort that a change of government does not mean a wholesale resignation/recruitment cycle. Do you really want an army divided along party political lines. One of the strengths of the army is its ability to serve all governments equally.
So does this mean that you're agreeing that the armed forces are political now? Or are you suggesting that all the other arms of the state are, but the forces are somehow different?
likesfish
You can't park here sir
i doubt these days you get anything as retarded as the mutiny in ireland or people playing silly buggers as claimed in the 70s.
Genuine contempt for most politicions and senior officers after a complete failure to tell people the truth during the last two wars.
The aims were impossible.
Genuine contempt for most politicions and senior officers after a complete failure to tell people the truth during the last two wars.
The aims were impossible.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Of course it militaristic, it is after all to remember the dead of the wars, the majority of which, in Britain, were soldiers, sailors and airmen. (And women).
toggle
wobbly
the big ramping up of the jingo this year is the commemorating the start of the war which is just sick, they didn't give a flying about the people who they sent to war then and they don't now. You're a spade or a tyre to these people- when you break they get a new one. You can fuck off and beg help for heroes for a few quid cos your no use in this mans army etc.
That and casting ww1 as a just necessary war, well thats a massive piece of revisionism. We hardly got the 'bosses war' narrative at school but we were at least told it was a stupid waste!
Declaring victory as the last men pull out of afghanistan tail between legs. We have always been at war with eurasia.
Just like when we one iraq 2 and trained a world beating army of locals there to defend freedomthat worked
it's not commemoration of the start of the war, it's it being billed as a fucking celebration.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I don't work in the public sector, but I am saying that the armed forces are political as they go out and kill people on behalf of the state.Do you work in the public sector? If so, what do you think guides your work? The tooth fairy?
Virtually every aspect of life is 'political' in one way or another.
Perhaps you should take some comfort that a change of government does not mean a wholesale resignation/recruitment cycle. Do you really want an army divided along party political lines. One of the strengths of the army is its ability to serve all governments equally.
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