What Does the US Election Result Mean for the World?

[Aldebaran]

My degree of knowledge is still slight, but it is greater than it was six months ago, and will be greater still in another six months.

It depends on what you choose to read (and even more important: who wrote it).

salaam.

 

[Rentonite]

Gosh! it is the Same ol same ol.....
No matter what, the terrorists will continue blowing things up and killing innocent people....
mostly just for fun now.
The standard election cycle party flip is nothing new, congress almost allways flips in the mid term election of a second term president.
Too bad,....this means the War will go on for the forseeable future.

Aint that Great?
Ya All will still have Plenty to talk about

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I'd be quite surprised if the US was able to extricate itself from Iraq, with neither party wanting to appear 'soft' for fear of what happens in 2008.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Of course, failing to extricate themselves is only going to end up one way.

 

[Tokyo]

I'd be quite surprised if the US was able to extricate itself from Iraq, with neither party wanting to appear 'soft' for fear of what happens in 2008.

Maybe so, but there's been a lot of talk now about how the two parties will have to work together on Iraq policy. They might both see a withdrawal as beneficial, and be able to blame the other for being 'soft'.

Clearly, the Democrat gains aren't going to result in a major change of direction in U.S. domestic policy, but they may well end some of the worst excesses in its foreign policy. An attack on Iran, for instance, now looks even less likely.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

The Democratic victories this month led to a surge of calls for the Administration to begin direct talks with Iran, in part to get its help in settling the conflict in Iraq. British Prime Minister Tony Blair broke ranks with President Bush after the election and declared that Iran should be offered “a clear strategic choice” that could include a “new partnership” with the West. But many in the White House and the Pentagon insist that getting tough with Iran is the only way to salvage Iraq. “It’s a classic case of ‘failure forward,’” a Pentagon consultant said. “They believe that by tipping over Iran they would recover their losses in Iraq—like doubling your bet. It would be an attempt to revive the concept of spreading democracy in the Middle East by creating one new model state.”

The view that there is a nexus between Iran and Iraq has been endorsed by Condoleezza Rice, who said last month that Iran “does need to understand that it is not going to improve its own situation by stirring instability in Iraq,” and by the President, who said, in August, that “Iran is backing armed groups in the hope of stopping democracy from taking hold” in Iraq. The government consultant told me, “More and more people see the weakening of Iran as the only way to save Iraq.”

The consultant added that, for some advocates of military action, “the goal in Iran is not regime change but a strike that will send a signal that America still can accomplish its goals. Even if it does not destroy Iran’s nuclear network, there are many who think that thirty-six hours of bombing is the only way to remind the Iranians of the very high cost of going forward with the bomb—and of supporting Moqtada al-Sadr and his pro-Iran element in Iraq.” (Sadr, who commands a Shiite militia, has religious ties to Iran.)

In the current issue of Foreign Policy, Joshua Muravchik, a prominent neoconservative, argued that the Administration had little choice. “Make no mistake: President Bush will need to bomb Iran’s nuclear facilities before leaving office,” he wrote. The President would be bitterly criticized for a preëmptive attack on Iran, Muravchik said, and so neoconservatives “need to pave the way intellectually now and be prepared to defend the action when it comes.”

The main Middle East expert on the Vice-President’s staff is David Wurmser, a neoconservative who was a strident advocate for the invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. Like many in Washington, Wurmser “believes that, so far, there’s been no price tag on Iran for its nuclear efforts and for its continuing agitation and intervention inside Iraq,” the consultant said. But, unlike those in the Administration who are calling for limited strikes, Wurmser and others in Cheney’s office “want to end the regime,” the consultant said. “They argue that there can be no settlement of the Iraq war without regime change in Iran.”

source

 

[weltweit]

Clearly, the Democrat gains aren't going to result in a major change of direction in U.S. domestic policy, but they may well end some of the worst excesses in its foreign policy. An attack on Iran, for instance, now looks even less likely.

Good thing too, I am dead against an attack on Iran, if we think we have terrorism now that would open the floodgates, plus there is no reason apart from fanaticiam to attack Iran.

Be friendly to Iran.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Friends to not attack friends [1]




[1] if we had been friends with Argentina it is likely the Falklands war would never have occurred.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

This is risible. "Anti-Israelis"? My how reductive of you. Quel surprise.

Your last paragraph is a real hoot: you claim to be "anti-dogmatism and intellectual laziness", yet your cut and paste excursions say the exact opposite of what you said. Oh and "political correctness"? Predictable to the very end.

Keep 'em coming Johnny, my sides are splitting.

Chock-full-'o-content!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It depends on what you choose to read (and even more important: who wrote it).

salaam.

That goes for both of us, doesn't it?

 

[Aldebaran]

That goes for both of us, doesn't it?

I only studied Islam on academic level, both in the Middle East and in Europe.

salaam.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I only studied Islam on academic level, both in the Middle East and in Europe.

salaam.

Then perhaps you would benefit from a catholicity of reading materials concerning North America, the culture and the politics here.

 

[Rentonite]

Johnnyyyyy You dont Mean to suggest that Aldebaran may have a
"one sided" opinion do you???
The whole "we are right and everyone elses opinion is wrong" thing is kinda the root issue for this whole thing.
It is easy to start to think that way, then when someone says something ya dont want to hear ya can insult them, or just kill em...
Again one of the "Root issues" in this whole conflict.

I am shure all the usual suspects will start in....
Go ahead.....I am Ready.........

 

[Aldebaran]

Then perhaps you would benefit from a catholicity of reading materials concerning North America, the culture and the politics here.

We were talking about Islam, remember, and - initially - about your knowledge on the subject, which you said was not all that much. That is why I indicated that if you read on the subject getting the correct information depends on the sources you use.
In Europe I studied - among others - at a Catholic universtity and I have a few degrees outside the field of Arabic and Islamic studies (you would call them Masters and since the Bologna treaty they are named Masters there too) but the USA is not related to any of those. I don't see why you come with this when we are talking about Islam. What is the connection?

salaam.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Johnnyyyyy You dont Mean to suggest that Aldebaran may have a
"one sided" opinion do you???
The whole "we are right and everyone elses opinion is wrong" thing is kinda the root issue for this whole thing.
It is easy to start to think that way, then when someone says something ya dont want to hear ya can insult them, or just kill em...
Again one of the "Root issues" in this whole conflict.

I am shure all the usual suspects will start in....
Go ahead.....I am Ready.........

Where have you been: jail?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

We were talking about Islam, remember, and - initially - about your knowledge on the subject, which you said was not all that much. That is why I indicated that if you read on the subject getting the correct information depends on the sources you use.
In Europe I studied - among others - at a Catholic universtity and I have a few degrees outside the field of Arabic and Islamic studies (you would call them Masters and since the Bologna treaty they are named Masters there too) but the USA is not related to any of those. I don't see why you come with this when we are talking about Islam. What is the connection?

salaam.

I stated that my knowledge of islam is limited, and that I was trying to improve on that. You advised that my level of improvement would depend on what I read, and by whom.

That's true. My return comment didn't relate to islam specifically, but to our respective degrees of knowledge about areas often under discussion; a good example is this thread, which relates directly to the US. I suggested that a lacuna in your experience and knowledge base, could possibly be the US, NA, and the morays, culture here. Since you often have an opinion about it, it was my suggestion that the quality of your opinion might benefit from some wide reading in the area, as mine would from reading about islam.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

In Europe I studied - among others - at a Catholic universtity and I have a few degrees outside the field of Arabic and Islamic studies (you would call them Masters and since the Bologna treaty they are named Masters there too) but the USA is not related to any of those. .

I only have couple of degrees, but I've spent enough time at universities to know that university degrees do not equate with wisdom, good judgement, a balanced viewpoint, nor with the smarts that come from life experience.

 

[nino_savatte]

I stated that my knowledge of islam is limited, and that I was trying to improve on that. [...]
it was my suggestion that the quality of your opinion might benefit from some wide reading in the area, as mine would from reading about islam.

Limited or wilfully ignorant?

 

[nino_savatte]

Chock-full-'o-content!

Chock full o' shite.

 

[Aldebaran]

Since you often have an opinion about it, it was my suggestion that the quality of your opinion might benefit from some wide reading in the area, as mine would from reading about islam.

I visit the USA since I was a child. That does not mean I need to be in agreement with US policies, does it?
I don't think I posted my opinions on US policies concerning the Middle East all that often. Although these affect me personally very deeply and very painfully, I am not the only one here who clearly has issues with the current US administration and on a broader base with the general US Foreign Policies over a longer period of time. (Opinions shared by my relatives and friends, in my country, across our borders, in Europe and in the USA itself.)

Would you ask me about Canada I had to tell you that I only visited once - which was quite impressive in terms of beautiful landscapes - and that my other knowledge goes not much further then knowing that one of my favourite dogs, a Newfoundlander, has his roots in Newfoundland. I also have the impression that I would freeze in Canada if dropped there in mid-winter

.../... spent enough time at universities to know that university degrees do not equate with wisdom, good judgement, a balanced viewpoint, nor with the smarts that come from life experience.

Depends completely on the university to begin with, next on what you do with your education and in my view even more on the intentions behind your decision to undertake a study. University diplomas are just a sheet of paper as consequence of an academic study and by no means even coming close to a final result. It is merely a good starting point.

salaam.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Chock full o' shite.

That's what I meant.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Limited or wilfully ignorant?

Limited.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I visit the USA since I was a child. That does not mean I need to be in agreement with US policies, does it?
I don't think I posted my opinions on US policies concerning the Middle East all that often. Although these affect me personally very deeply and very painfully, I am not the only one here who clearly has issues with the current US administration and on a broader base with the general US Foreign Policies over a longer period of time. (Opinions shared by my relatives and friends, in my country, across our borders, in Europe and in the USA itself.).

It's hard not to hold an opinion about the US these days; the challenge lies in holding an informed opinion.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Would you ask me about Canada I had to tell you that I only visited once - which was quite impressive in terms of beautiful landscapes - and that my other knowledge goes not much further then knowing that one of my favourite dogs, a Newfoundlander, has his roots in Newfoundland. I also have the impression that I would freeze in Canada if dropped there in mid-winter.

Unless you were dropped in Vancouver. There's lots to know about this country as well.

Labrador retrievers have their roots in Newfoundland also.

 

[Aldebaran]

Labrador retrievers have their roots in Newfoundland also.

I know, but I fell in love with a black Newfoundlander with a heart-shaped white spot on his chest. When he was a puppy he looked like a mini-grizzly bear.

salaam.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I know, but I fell in love with a black Newfoundlander with a heart-shaped white spot on his chest. When he was a puppy he looked like a mini-grizzly bear.

salaam.

Problem with a dog like that is the shedding.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's hard not to hold an opinion about the US these days; the challenge lies in holding an informed opinion.

Nobody would think or care one second about the USA if it wasn't affecting everything that moves all over the globe.

An informed opinion is that their geopolitical strategy is understandable from the point of view of the Empire they are (nothing is new in history). Yet that does not exclude the fact that this costed and costs tens of thousands of innocent lives and affected and affects the lives of millions more.
If I give an opinion on the US on these boards it shall usually not be as independend rationally reasoning historian but as a person who has to deal daily with his incurable, irreparable grief caused by the USA.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

Problem with a dog like that is the shedding.

No, he gets "hoovered"and he only sheds his fluffy undercoat, not the long hair. The problem is that he is completely mad about water. He doesn't even drink like a normal dog. He jumps in it with both his front legs to "drink" with his head under water. Always funny to watch that.

salaam

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Nobody would think or care one second about the USA if it wasn't affecting everything that moves all over the globe.

An informed opinion is that their geopolitical strategy is understandable from the point of view of the Empire they are (nothing is new in history). Yet that does not exclude the fact that this costed and costs tens of thousands of innocent lives and affected and affects the lives of millions more.
If I give an opinion on the US on these boards it shall usually not be as independend rationally reasoning historian but as a person who has to deal daily with his incurable, irreparable grief caused by the USA.

salaam.

My point is simple. Posters who opine on things islamic are castigated for their lack of knowledge of Islam, and islamic people.

Turnaround is fair play: many comment on the US as well, but have little real knowledge of that country and its people.

 

[marksl]

Or they do have knowledge of america since the americans being so loud and arrogant boast constantly about their country on the media its hard to escape it but then with that information presented to you its hard to not form an opinion.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Or they do have knowledge of america since the americans being so loud and arrogant boast constantly about their country on the media its hard to escape it but then with that information presented to you its hard to not form an opinion.

I can't make sense out of this run-on sentence.