welfare state breakdown

[ViolentPanda]

i truly feel for the harm you have come to serving this country. im not being sarcastic, i mean that.

but if i may use your self disclosed problems as an example.

you have levels of disability and related health problems that are fairly severe. yet even with those problems you are able to use ICT, formulate arguments (whether i agree with them or not doesnt come into it), and sit at a computer for some time.

there are numerous fields of employemnt that someone with your comaprable disabilities could do utilising those skills

why can people not see the point i am making

there are very few people that can not undertake any form of employment at all

There are very few employers (I haven't found any) who're willing to take on someone whose ability to "...use ICT, formulate arguments ... and sit at a computer..." are intermittent, as is my ability to concentrate and to not slur like a drunken Cornish trawlerman when his boat has come in.
This is the problem that gums up the schemes you're talking about. People with "*simple" health issues may get something out of such (vastly expensive for little return) programmes. The likes of myself and that "significant minority" I spoke of won't. Not because we don't have saleable skills, but because we have to sell those skills on our own terms rather than on the terms set by an employer, and employers don't go for that. I get the occasional bit of research work from old contacts, on my terms, which means it's not anything time-sensitive or particularly interesting, but it is "meaningful activity" if nothing else.

*All things are relative.

 

[Carousel]

you be a little winder upper no?

You're winding yourself up. That sensation you feel was already present, I didn't put it there.

 

[ViolentPanda]

is there a statute on that? im not aware of selling sex to be a legal pasttime... i know (barring some circumstances) it isnt illegal

but like with some recreational chemicals, not being illegal is not the same as being legal

this is a question, not a statement as i dont know

The act of prostitution is not illegal, the act of soliciting for prostitution is illegal.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Because values and beliefs are often bound close to their sense of self...

How very profound of you to repeat a 100 year-old sociological common-place.

....especially so for people who enjoy internet forums. That’s why the discussions are so polar and so animated.

And, quite possibly, why your own output is so tedious.

 

[Carousel]

The act of prostitution is not illegal, the act of soliciting for prostitution is illegal.

Only on the street. You can solicit in other media. Apart from maybe in Northern Ireland.

you are able to use ICT, formulate arguments (whether i agree with them or not doesnt come into it), and sit at a computer for some time.

there are numerous fields of employemnt that someone with your comaprable disabilities could do utilising those skills

Post current vacancy or STFU.

How very profound of you to repeat a 100 year-old sociological common-place.

Your disability, low social status and lack of sexual contact have made you bitter and mean. I forgive you.

 

[ViolentPanda]

what is life without hopes and aspirations?

Carousel's life.
Then again, he's apparently a Nietzschean übermensch, and above the quotidian practices of hoping and aspiring. Instead, he acts!

Or so he believes.

 

[ericjarvis]

Clients do often list "get a job" as a primary goal. Clients often have very unrealistic expectation as to what a job will do for them and how soon they will be ready. I have seen clients get jobs before they are ready and lose them very quickly, I have seen other clients go back to work too soon and relapse because of stress. Work is not a magic bullet.

That's what I did. Came out of serious illness and extreme stress (in that order). As soon as I was capable of getting a job I went back to work. A year later my health had pretty much completely collapsed. I will go back to work when my GP decides there will be no serious adverse consequences and not before. That's not just for my benefit. The choice is between waiting a while before going back to working, or risking blindness, loss of a limb, permanent nerve damage, heart failure, psychosis, or possibly death. If I wait the nation should get another decade and a half of taxes from me, if I don't then the nation gets fuck all in comparison. Which is the better deal?

Oh yes, I forgot, all that actually matters is what jonajuna pays in taxes this month. There is no past or future.

Thank god none of the medical pros I have to deal with are so completely incapable of understanding how the world works.

 

[jonajuna]

blah

 

[smokedout]

Irritating in so far as they don't reinforce your arbitrary and magical beliefs. Like life in general, ignore everything that doesn’t flatter your trite little quasi-religious framework of good and evil, right and wrong.

oh my you really are very clever, it took me till at least 15 or so before i had such bold insights into the world

why dont you write a poem about it

 

[FreddyB]

of course thats perfectly "natural"

i need a house, as i am not a builder and dont have land of my own (planning issues are separate... i may surprise with my views on that) i have to buy one or pay someone else to build one for me

im not getting into discussions or land/property ownership is theft, grew out of that 20 years ago

i dont live on a farm, so i have to buy my food

to pay for my house and to pay for my food i need money, to get money i need to trade something for it

i trade the skills i have as a (fairly specialised as it goes) nurse, in exchange for money

then i use this money to pay the builder and the grocer for those things i need

a barter system using tokens rather than goats

what other system do you propose? barter system.. only works if you have trade-able skills... i sort of think myine are not.... how would i trade my ability to assess someones drug and alcohol needs? more to the point.. who would want to?

subsistence lifestyle? nice idea but as we cant intensively farm enough food for the population of this country within the country.. i fail to see how we could all sustain ourselves through small holdings of our own


society has grown at such a rate, and so quickly that nothing short of a complete collapse of its systems (and all the death and destruction that will come with that) will be enough to be able to move away from how we are

but if it does all implode...... im alright jack, bit of a closet survivalist

Sorry, I thought you lived in Britain I didn't realise you lived in a place with such a simple and innocent system where people worked to fulfill needs based on their abilities.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Your disability, low social status and lack of sexual contact have made you bitter and mean. I forgive you.

How very tedious that you choose to project your own status and sexual issues onto me.
Have you tried psycho-therapy? Or perhaps giving yourself powerful electric shocks by biting a live mains cable?

 

[ViolentPanda]

oh my you really are very clever, it took me till at least 15 or so before i had such bold insights into the world

why dont you write a poem about it

Harsh, but fair.

 

[jonajuna]

blah

 

[jonajuna]

blahn

 

[FreddyB]

what?

pretty much everyone has a job that is based on their ability to do that job

other than gordon brown

It was a polite way of saying that your explanation of the economic system and the experience of people who have to exchange their labour was simplistic horseshit

 

[smokedout]

i am also instrumental in child protection proceedings, sometimes this mean i cast an opinion which leads to children being removed from an abusive family

should i take the families word for it that they dont neglect or beat their child?

sometimes i have to make unpopular decisons, that is part of the role i have taken on

i do it in a clinically evidenced based manner, not one that is influenced by my emotive or political slant

get over yourself, youre a nurse, youre opinion is worth jackshit in any care hearing

 

[jonajuna]

blah

 

[jonajuna]

blah

 

[smokedout]

get over yourself, youre a nurse, youre opinion is worth jackshit in any care hearing

you are quite right, im not (often) required in court for care proceedings, but it does happen that i and colleagues are called upon to give expert witness statements

like i said

 

[smokedout]

but this is waaaaayyyyyy OT and i dont see why i have to justify my position nor experience to be of the opinion that people should (where possible) support themselves

because youre a self-important prick who fails to see and understand that people may have complex needs and problems which make supporting themselves impossible under current conditions

but ill indulge you, what do you recommend, when all these people who have been shifted off ib onto jsa and are still unable ro find work

what should happen then?

 

[jonajuna]

blah

 

[jonajuna]

blah

 

[smokedout]

so what is it you do for a living?

currently living on tax credit and picking up what work i can whilst being a part time parent

previously, manager of a day centre funded by employment services to help homeless people on incapacity benefit into work

 

[jonajuna]

blah

 

[smokedout]

or they could re-educate, other training scheme, do some (limited) voluntary work or god forbide, do upto 16 hours a week on agency/ bank work. this doesnt effect your jsa claim (as long as you are not fiddling the dole and actually declare it)

it does affect your jsa claim, perhaps not in theory but in practice, it also and more importantly fucks up your housing benefit claim

so those (GENUINE FUCKING CASES ASIDE) people that could work but blag the sick that get caught out and put onto jsa/is who dont find work, are then subject to everyone else who is unemployed, they keep looking, prove they are looking (seeing as they are not working..... its not unreasonable to expect them to actually fill their day looking for work) and hopefully, eventually they will find work

and if they dont, because most of the people were talking about and this new legislation is aimed at have either substance use problems, mental health problems etc and to be frank are unemployable

you think they should just get less money and be forced into further poverty for being unable to compete in a capitalist economy

 

[smokedout]

so your knowledge about CP processes.......

ive been on the end of them fuckface

and you were part of "the problem".. even worse, part of the "elite" supressing the "workforce"


interesting how your real world life is in such opposition to your online polictics

and im self righteous

in fact i consider that work to be amongst the radical ive ever done, as well as refusing point blank to take mandatory referrals i gave away thousands of pounds of the dwps money whilst working on the real problems people faced which were housing, drugs and alcohol and mental health

 

[In Bloom]

or they could re-educate, other training scheme, do some (limited) voluntary work or god forbide, do upto 16 hours a week on agency/ bank work. this doesnt effect your jsa claim (as long as you are not fiddling the dole and actually declare it)

I actually did the agency thing for a long while. It's immensely more complicated than not working at all and leaves you no better off (in fact, if you have to sign off due to doing a couple of weeks full-time, you then have a long wait for your claim to be processed once you sign back on, due to the silly ammount of paperwork involved). I only did it because I hate being out of work altogether, I wouldn't blame anyone who'd rather not bother.

 

[jonajuna]

b;ah

 

[jonajuna]

b;ah

 

[trevhagl]

you go on about abusive families but isn't your beloved welfare reform driving people to lose their temper and take it out on their loved ones (sadly they can't get at the twats who make the rules)