Weasel Straw strikes again (Pakistani men in Britain see white girls as "easy meat")
- Thread starter DrRingDing
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
What is your opinion of Weber's thesis? Is it convincing, do you think? How does it explain the rise of France? Cantoni's analysis of Germany appears to contradict the thesis.
It seems likely to me that Protestantism was a convenient religion to use to promote the values of capitalism, but that the values of capitalism owe little to Protestantism itself. It seems more likely that capitalism influenced Protestantism than the other way round. Certainly the thesis that Protestantism was a precondition for the development of capitalism is one that would need a lot of justification. Far more likely that the Enlightenment was a necessary precondition, bringing about a new belief in the power of empiricism, but as the article you link to points out, the simple fact of enclosure seems the most likely explanation for the rise of capitalism in England. Before a place can industrialise, it needs to find a way to feed the factory workers, and that means more efficient farming. Enclosure may have been a terrible injustice, but it did lead pretty directly to more efficient farming methods.
I think Weber's looking in the wrong place.
It seems likely to me that Protestantism was a convenient religion to use to promote the values of capitalism, but that the values of capitalism owe little to Protestantism itself. It seems more likely that capitalism influenced Protestantism than the other way round. Certainly the thesis that Protestantism was a precondition for the development of capitalism is one that would need a lot of justification. Far more likely that the Enlightenment was a necessary precondition, bringing about a new belief in the power of empiricism, but as the article you link to points out, the simple fact of enclosure seems the most likely explanation for the rise of capitalism in England. Before a place can industrialise, it needs to find a way to feed the factory workers, and that means more efficient farming. Enclosure may have been a terrible injustice, but it did lead pretty directly to more efficient farming methods.
I think Weber's looking in the wrong place.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You could say that the Protestant emphasis on reading the bible for yourself was an advance on the monolithic Catholic doctrine whereby the secrets of the faith were guarded by the clergy. That is an advance in thought that was possibly in a very general way a precondition for the rise of capitalism as it happened.
I find the argument that the specific work ethic emphasised by Protestantism was a driver for capitalist development far less convincing. More likely to me that the Protestant work ethic grew in importance as a result of capitalist pressure to produce an ever-growing economy.
I find the argument that the specific work ethic emphasised by Protestantism was a driver for capitalist development far less convincing. More likely to me that the Protestant work ethic grew in importance as a result of capitalist pressure to produce an ever-growing economy.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
could you tell me how telling a lie makes you not a liar?
on this thread you've changed the parameters of the argument to suit yourself, been as pedantic as you've ever accused others of being, been viciously rude to people and throughout there's been a general taint of dishonesty. someone who told lies four years ago is a proven liar, and this thread shows you're still at it. i ask again, why should people engage with you?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
oh - and wasn't there a rather famous lie you told, something about being the epsom arsonist. you've rather a record of dishonesty, pk. so you can't be one of the 'genuine people', not if you're a lying little shit. actually, let's just look again at what you say about the genuine people.
this seems to me to say that these 'genuine people', in your view, refuse to engage with anything that might compromise the fake image they have of themselves.
is this really what you wanted to say?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
You post a thread from 4 years ago where I stated I was fucking off from these boards, which I did for a year or so, then again last year, and you cite this as proof of a lie? You were the one who flounced off after being caught reposting private dinner conversations in an attempt to smear the owner of this website, so don't give me your moral high-ground, get back to your anti-depressants and alcohol problems.
The only emotion you elicit from anyone is abject pity.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
My impression was that protestantisms attack on the old hierarchies (and not only religious ones), ones which were inherently tied up in the whole economic/political system, paved the way for the new merchant class to play a bigger role in society, neither capital nor protestantism caused the other, but they each greased the wheel that allowed them to become more dominant (if that makes sense).
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
@ belboid
That makes more sense, yes. Weber's specific argument concerned the work ethic, however, although as that wiki link states, he himself called it merely one 'elective affinity' among many. I simply question whether or not that ethic itself developed in response to capitalism – Weber is suggesting that capitalism developed as a response to the ethic, which is the bit I have trouble with.
That makes more sense, yes. Weber's specific argument concerned the work ethic, however, although as that wiki link states, he himself called it merely one 'elective affinity' among many. I simply question whether or not that ethic itself developed in response to capitalism – Weber is suggesting that capitalism developed as a response to the ethic, which is the bit I have trouble with.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
What on earth are you waffling on about? So he changed his mind.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
oh - i note you're not disputing this bit:
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
let's give him the benefit of the doubt.
but the lies he's told about his so-called anti-fascist activities? i suppose he just 'changed his mind' about those.
Moving the goalposts yet again, Pick?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
It's his definition of "proof". Fuck him, he has mental health issues I'm not remotely interested in confronting.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Precisely this, and I do think that you and littlebabyjesus have indeed come up with interesting factors that may have a bearing on the figures stated. Certainly more of an intelligent approach than the moronic efforts of belboid's "I don't trust coppers, I'm an anarchist, me"
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
We know that the excuse of "human rights abuses" was deployed to establish some spurious "humanitarian" element to the invasion, but that's all it was. There was no actual humanitarian reasoning behind the invasion, just a combination of half thought-out neocon policy aims, such as establishing US footholds in the region to counterbalance the Russian and Chinese presences.
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I'm not disagreeing with this, however I am of the belief that the only good taliban fighter is one in a bodybag.
Fuck them and their backward oppressive regime, and fuck anyone trying to impose that shit.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Right, so you'll be making the same complaints when I get accused of doing coke or generally being some sort of drug addict... laughable really when the only drugs I do these days are the odd ale or bottle of wine, or coffee and cigarettes...
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Luckily I don't need to partake in either.
PlaidDragon
We don't need money to have a good time
The only one who comes across as having mental health issues is you. I mean, come on, who feels the need to write an enormous, back-slapping, self-important post to state they're stopping posting on the internet? Fucking pathetic, especially considering you went back on it a year later. Perhaps because your brand of trying to wind people up got you twatted too many times.
Still, nice and safe behind your computer screen eh
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
The only one who comes across as having mental health issues is you. I mean, come on, who feels the need to write an enormous, back-slapping, self-important post to state they're stopping posting on the internet? Fucking pathetic, especially considering you went back on it a year later. Perhaps because your brand of trying to wind people up got you twatted too many times.
Still, nice and safe behind your computer screen eh
I think that's enough.
Back on track.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
The only one who comes across as having mental health issues is you. I mean, come on, who feels the need to write an enormous, back-slapping, self-important post to state they're stopping posting on the internet? Fucking pathetic, especially considering you went back on it a year later. Perhaps because your brand of trying to wind people up got you twatted too many times.
Still, nice and safe behind your computer screen eh
As long as it winds you up, it's clearly accomplishing its aims then isn't it?
You've been here a month. People come and go all the time, only to re-appear again later.
And if you think that was a serious post instead of the pisstake it was then perhaps you need to learn a bit more about how the internet works, either that or fuck off and find another website where everyone agrees and there's no deviation from the cult-like approved method of debating online.
Like I'd give a fuck either way.
Racism
PlaidDragon
We don't need money to have a good time
As long as it winds you up, it's clearly accomplishing its aims then isn't it?
You've been here a month. People come and go all the time, only to re-appear again later.
And if you think that was a serious post instead of the pisstake it was then perhaps you need to learn a bit more about how the internet works, either that or fuck off and find another website where everyone agrees and there's no deviation from the cult-like approved method of debating online.
Like I'd give a fuck either way.
Self important prick... no-one cares that much about your opinion, just like they don't care about mine, or anyone else's. It's the internet, get over yourself lad.
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