Weasel Straw strikes again (Pakistani men in Britain see white girls as "easy meat")
- Thread starter DrRingDing
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Treacle Toes
Time
Islamaphobia is a made up media word with no 'meaning' but trolling isn't? I understand why you don't like the term but don't make excuses or ignore it.
Some serious double standards at play there IMO. You are suggesting that pk doesn't really think in the way he does but is posting here to only get a rise?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Define Islamophobia.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Page 82
Oh I was going to leave it alone. Then I saw it was attracting fools like you and thought I'd have a little fun instead.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
It's Baroness Warsi getting sworn at by some tacky-chavs apparently.
Treacle Toes
Time
Islamophobia is Muslims and Trots trolling critics of said religion. The roots of the argument that Pakistani rape gangs are influenced by cultural and religious hairy gonads have not been callenged in any significant way on this thread really have they,I can't speak for PK I'm sure he believes what he says.
pk
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Yeah, it's all a laugh and a fun winding 'fools' up exercise for you eh?
You are not a convincing liar btw.
And you are not a very convincing feminist.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I appreciate the fact that you're one of the few people not putting words into my mouth and sittingg back and saying "told you so!" which seems to be a popular method of what passes for debate.
I'm not sure what I believe but I'm prepared to entertain the notion that religion and culture had a massive part to play in these rapes.
And I've yet to be meaningfully convinced otherwise.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It seems to me that Islamophobia is an attempt to define a racist attitude, but that it does so with reference to a belief system, which is a muddled approach.
All racism involves cultural stereotyping, ie aspects beyond mere physical appearance, but difference in physical appearance is central to the racist to define who belongs to which group. Those who might be branded 'Islamophobes' are likely to be confused by the fact of a Muslim convert. This is an affront to their simplistic racist reasoning – but she looks like us! Putting myself in their place, I would imagine them thinking that 'their' girl had been 'stolen' by 'them', or some such bollocks. But however their confusion manifests itself, it is at root because they are racist, not because of some concept called 'Islamophobia'.
The term racism is sufficient. There is no need for the term Islamophobia, nor is it a coherent concept, in that it is (has to be) fear/hatred of a belief system. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with fearing or hating a belief system. Adopting this term in fact plays into the hands of those who would say that you can be born a Muslim, those like that actress's family. This is nonsense and must be called such.
All racism involves cultural stereotyping, ie aspects beyond mere physical appearance, but difference in physical appearance is central to the racist to define who belongs to which group. Those who might be branded 'Islamophobes' are likely to be confused by the fact of a Muslim convert. This is an affront to their simplistic racist reasoning – but she looks like us! Putting myself in their place, I would imagine them thinking that 'their' girl had been 'stolen' by 'them', or some such bollocks. But however their confusion manifests itself, it is at root because they are racist, not because of some concept called 'Islamophobia'.
The term racism is sufficient. There is no need for the term Islamophobia, nor is it a coherent concept, in that it is (has to be) fear/hatred of a belief system. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with fearing or hating a belief system. Adopting this term in fact plays into the hands of those who would say that you can be born a Muslim, those like that actress's family. This is nonsense and must be called such.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I'm a Jehovah's Witness O' Phobe.
I hate those cunts, they'd sooner see their kids die than allow a blood transfusion.
I'm a Scientolophobe too. L Ron was a child abuser who got his kicks trying to force abortions with wire coathangers.
Islamophobe? Yeah I'll take that. In its most "pure" form it is a backward system.
I prefer the moderate version, such as that found in Albania, where women don't have to dress like postboxes and they can enjoy a beer and date or marry people from outside their community without causing huge issues.
I say if you want to live in a strict islamic society - fuck off to Saudi Arabia.
It'll never be tolerated in the UK, and only a complete cunt would turn a blind eye to the sort of cunts trying to install it here.
I hate those cunts, they'd sooner see their kids die than allow a blood transfusion.
I'm a Scientolophobe too. L Ron was a child abuser who got his kicks trying to force abortions with wire coathangers.
Islamophobe? Yeah I'll take that. In its most "pure" form it is a backward system.
I prefer the moderate version, such as that found in Albania, where women don't have to dress like postboxes and they can enjoy a beer and date or marry people from outside their community without causing huge issues.
I say if you want to live in a strict islamic society - fuck off to Saudi Arabia.
It'll never be tolerated in the UK, and only a complete cunt would turn a blind eye to the sort of cunts trying to install it here.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
your life,
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I have some sympathy for pk's point of view. 'It'll never be tolerated in the UK' is not necessarily true, though, is it? Hasidic Judaism has long been tolerated, and it has similarly fucked up attitudes. It's a difficult thing to legislate against. If people choose to live that way, trying to stop them may have worse consequences than taking no action at all.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
it's not a religious thing tho, it's gender. simple as. and power imbalances.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I don't know what you can do, though. In a primary school in Clerkenwell I was standing opposite the other day (fuck that sounds bad doesn't it – I was just escaping for a fag), it was playtime and there were three girls no more than seven or eight with these extraordinary head bibs on that just showed their faces. They were playing quite enthusiastically, but being forced to only appear in public in that way from childhood is a big thing to do. I have some sympathy for the French attitude, which bans such things from state schools. These contraptions have to restrict the ways in which these girls can interact, both physically and emotionally, with the outside world – when does such treatment become unacceptable?
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
I don't disagree, but its still a fundamental gender-based inequality primarily. The fact that it happens under the auspices of "fundamental islam" (which is a cultural lie anyway), is something of a diversionary factor imo.
pk
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Concern. Not to be confused with fear.
Fear is where you essentially agree with someone but are frightened to let it be known.
Thing for me is I hate our homegrown culture as much as any religion, I fantasize about being a Frenchman drinking red wine whilst the the midday sun melts my cheese and petit pierre and chantelle play le dog bull englaise around my feet.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I don't see the hasidim murdering their own daughters in the name of their god these days very often.
I think they cut that shit out back when Aramaic was still a spoken language.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I'll take the cheese the wine the language and the lovely powerful women but I'll never be French.
merde non.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
They separate the sexes, a woman's place is in the home, shaving your head and wearing a wig has certain echoes of the hijab. There are similarities.
I don't have a good answer to this. I don't actually want to say to anyone 'you must live like us'. But at the same time, the rest of us do have some duty towards those that grow up in repressive cultures and are trapped in unhappy lives.
I don't have a good answer to this. I don't actually want to say to anyone 'you must live like us'. But at the same time, the rest of us do have some duty towards those that grow up in repressive cultures and are trapped in unhappy lives.
Islam is as diverse asthe Jewery, anyway push comes and we all get religion its lasted a long time so like a bad habit it takes strenth to resist.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Quote of the thread that.
Applies equally to the victims of religious abuse, or the 11/12 year old victims of shit parents who have been taken away from home, and then just been dumped by "the care system".
All these graduates of social sciences everywhere and studies show nothing that might offend.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Well that's true. Bless you.
Treacle Toes
Time
ericjarvis
give a feck for the feckless
What I mean by it is that they aren't available from an official source backed up by the raw data and a proper explanation of what the categories mean and how the data was collected. Given that the numbers given conflict dramatically with other figures given for essentially the same data, I don't consider it reliable enough to use as a reason to ignore all the other evidence.
I believe there's a fundamental point here. The real argument is about whether you treat a crime according to the nature of the act or according to the nature of the perpetrator(s). Some of us on this thread primarily see the idea of a sexually predatory gang in terms of their actions, others look first at the gang. I consider the latter approach to be fundamentally flawed.
Firstly it can lead to a concentration on a particular type of criminal as if others committing the same crimes are a completely different thing. That's particularly dangerous in a situation where a group of people (in this case Muslims) are being subjected to a barrage of criticism in the media. There's a perfect example from those bringing up examples of Muslim women being attacked for being involved with non-Muslim men. This again isn't actually something specifically Muslim. It's classic fear of miscegenation and is something engaged in by the violent and ignorant of all backgrounds, races and religions. Here's an article giving a more general view.
Secondly, and in my view more importantly, it supports a very basic error in moral philosophy. So far as I am concerned any action has the same morality regardless of who takes it. Unfortunately for many people that's too difficult and uncomfortable an approach to take. They want to divide the world into "good people" and "bad people" so that they don't have to make a moral judgement about all their own actions, they simply want to be able to define themselves as being one of the "good people". To do so they need to create labels that can be attached to others in order to categorise them as "bad people". That way a gang of Muslims committing rape are doing so because they are Muslim and thus can be labelled as "bad people". Whereas a gang of mixed black and white youths in London doing precisely the same thing are doing so for completely different reasons and due to them having different labels attached in order to categorise them as "bad people".
The simple fact is that ALL the bad things Islam is used as an excuse for are also done allegedly for a whole load of other reasons. Which I consider makes it a complete waste of time to look at the excuses, and means that whereever the solutions lie they aren't going to be found by looking at Islam and Muslims exclusively.
In fact I think it's doing precisely the same thing as is being criticised. Treating "them" as inevitably worse than "us".
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