'Vegan diets are healthier and safer for dogs' says The Guardian about University of Winchester survey

[Sasaferrato]

There hasn't been just one study and there's plenty of anecdotal evidence of veggie/vegan dogs living long and healthy lives.

Not double blind large studies, anecdotal evidence.

 

[souljacker]

My parents had King Charles Spaniels in the 80s/90s that were all fed on a non-meat diet. Not because of an ethical reason, but because the first one we had was a pedigree that we got from a breeder (who had won at crufts) and she swore by it. Sadly first dog died young from cancer (pedigrees ) but the other four they had lived until their late teens. I can't remember what the brand name was but it was sort of like muesli.

Their poohs were far less rank than most dogs but the gas was shocking.

 

[Elpenor]

My parents had King Charles Spaniels in the 80s/90s that were all fed on a non-meat diet. Not because of an ethical reason, but because the first one we had was a pedigree that we got from a breeder (who had won at crufts) and she swore by it. Sadly first dog died young from cancer (pedigrees ) but the other four they had lived until their late teens. I can't remember what the brand name was but it was sort of like muesli.

Their poohs were far less rank than most dogs but the gas was shocking.

That’s a good age for that breed

 

[editor]

Not double blind large studies, anecdotal evidence.

More research needs to be done, but it's not all anecdotal:

This research was conducted at the Department of Animal Husbandry in the Veterinary Academy of the Lithuanian University of Health Sciences in 2019. In this investigation, dogs in Scheer, Germany, were fed two different diets: vegan and meat-based.

The nutritional adequacy of a vegan diet was determined by analysis of blood samples from 40 dogs, 20 of which were fed a 100% plant-based vegan diet for an average of 2.15 years, and a control group of 20 were fed a meat-based diet. The results showed the same number of surpluses in both groups; however, the vegan group had only two nutritional deficiencies compared to 11 in the meat fed group. Statistically significant differences (p < 0.01) were found between the groups in iron, vitamin B12 and folic acid concentrations. Total protein, calcium and magnesium were not significantly different (p > 0.05).

Blood chemistry analyses and physical examinations of the vegan dogs in this study together clearly indicate that a vegan diet can be healthy and adequate for dogs, and in some cases, even improve overall health. The additional data collected from 250 dog owners feeding a plant-based diet strongly supported this conclusion.

The vegan diet and its effects on the dog’s health

The meat-based fed control group showed 11 deficiencies while the long-term vegan fed category presented only two deficiencies

vegan-dogfood.co.uk

 

[souljacker]

That’s a good age for that breed

All the dogs after the first one were rescues and weren't pure breeds (although they did come from the KCS Rescue Society). They were pretty decrepit once they got past about 15. One used to die on walks then come back to life a few minutes later

 

[scifisam]

Maybe for humans, not necessarily for dogs. There would need to be a lot more testing than just 32 dogs for 10 weeks before anyone could say that a vegetarian diet is healthy for dogs.

It was 326 dogs for a year. So yes, that is a lot more testing than you thought it was...

 

[kabbes]

It was 326 dogs for a year. So yes, that is a lot more testing than you thought it was...

None of the dogs were tested, though (unless I’m misremembering the study). The owners were asked questions and they counted vet trips. Neither of those things seem to have good construct validity for the effect of diet on health, let alone long-term effect.

 

[andysays]

Reading this thread, I'm reminded of the old saying about the drunkard and the lamp post

 

[butcher]

Of course most dog food is produced from those parts of animals which many people won't eat, which at the very least ensures that the whole of an animal is used rather than the more palatable parts.

 

[two sheds]

Of course most dog food is produced from those parts of animals which many people won't eat, which at the very least ensures that the whole of an animal is used rather than the more palatable parts.

increasingly, carrot tops

 

[butcher]

More research needs to be done, but it's not all anecdotal:

The vegan diet and its effects on the dog’s health

The meat-based fed control group showed 11 deficiencies while the long-term vegan fed category presented only two deficiencies

vegan-dogfood.co.uk

Statistically significant in a test group that small? Really at least find some decent studies to bang your gourd to rather than some hokey nonsense published on a vegan site.

It is hard to take any of your anti-meat posts seriously if you justify them with such dire research.

I respect your views but not the 'evidence' you choose to support them.

 

[WouldBe]

It was 326 dogs for a year. So yes, that is a lot more testing than you thought it was...

Not what I read. 2 studies 1 if 12 dogs and the other of 20 dogs making 32 in total. Then if course when you do a 'blind' trial half of them had the vegetarian diet the other half had meat based dog food. So only 16 dogs had the vegetarian diet.

 

[WouldBe]

More research needs to be done, but it's not all anecdotal:

The vegan diet and its effects on the dog’s health

The meat-based fed control group showed 11 deficiencies while the long-term vegan fed category presented only two deficiencies

vegan-dogfood.co.uk

Not sure that's much better plus there is bias in the reporting where it makes our that dogs with nutrient deficiency before the vegetarian diet began improved while on the diet yet then goes on to say that out of the 4 dogs, 1 ended up with higher than normal levels and 1 was still deficient. So only 50% if the dogs improved on the vegetarian diet, 25% had little or no effect and 25% ended up with higher than normal levels which can be just as bad as low levels.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Not what I read. 2 studies 1 if 12 dogs and the other of 20 dogs making 32 in total. Then if course when you do a 'blind' trial half of them had the vegetarian diet the other half had meat based dog food. So only 16 dogs had the vegetarian diet.

See the totally discredited so called 'research' quoted in the OP.

 

[butcher]

Here is a nice reasonably balanced review of present research in the field:

The legal, ethical and welfare implications of feeding vegan diets to dogs and cats - The Veterinary Nurse

‘A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.’ .

www.theveterinarynurse.com

 

[scifisam]

Not what I read. 2 studies 1 if 12 dogs and the other of 20 dogs making 32 in total. Then if course when you do a 'blind' trial half of them had the vegetarian diet the other half had meat based dog food. So only 16 dogs had the vegetarian diet.

No, the study the whole thread is about. It's a study with some problems, definitely, but it's a fair bit bigger than the ones you're referencing, which barely seen worthwhile really.

 

[cupid_stunt]

No, the study the whole thread is about. It's a study with some problems, definitely, but it's a fair bit bigger than the ones you're referencing, which barely seen worthwhile really.

'Some problems', seriously?

It's not a scientific study, carried out by a self-confessed vegan professor, who basically admits it has not proven anything & more research is required, financed by 'pro-veg', which also paid for it to be published on a very questionable and largely unheard of website, that doesn't seem to explain how they 'peer review' what they are paid to publish.

 

[Saunders]

My parents had King Charles Spaniels in the 80s/90s that were all fed on a non-meat diet. Not because of an ethical reason, but because the first one we had was a pedigree that we got from a breeder (who had won at crufts) and she swore by it. Sadly first dog died young from cancer (pedigrees ) but the other four they had lived until their late teens. I can't remember what the brand name was but it was sort of like muesli.

Their poohs were far less rank than most dogs but the gas was shocking.

That’s reminded me my brothers first dog was fed a vegetarian diet, like you say it looked like muesli, and he did shockingly stinky farts. He seemed to do alright on it though and lived til around 14.

 

[scifisam]

'Some problems', seriously?

It's not a scientific study, carried out by a self-confessed vegan professor, who basically admits it has not proven anything & more research is required, financed by 'pro-veg', which also paid for it to be published on a very questionable and largely unheard of website, that doesn't seem to explain how they 'peer review' what they are paid to publish.

Like you say, the guy who carried it out says more research is required - it was a survey rather than a study. There are aren't any major problems with it looked at as a survey that doesn't make the claims the article reckons it does.

 

[Funky_monks]

I preferred this thread when it was pictures of posters dogs and not desperate attempts to justify the shittiest piece of research I've ever had the misfortune to read.

 

[editor]

Of course most dog food is produced from those parts of animals which many people won't eat, which at the very least ensures that the whole of an animal is used rather than the more palatable parts.

So is that your reasoning for no reduction in meat consumption?

 

[editor]

Funny how just about every single fucking thread that starts with something positive to say about anything to do with veganism ends up with the exact same pro-meat fanatics doing their best to dismiss everything out of hand.

And I thought it was the vegans who were supposed to be obsessed ones who are always trying to push their lifestyle choices on to others...

 

[butcher]

So is that your reasoning for no reduction in meat consumption?

I didn't state that anywhere. I am just pointing out that at least all of a resource is being used instead of part of one. No need for straw men.

I doubt that you remember, but my personal take is that those who eat meat would be better eating less, higher quality, higher welfare meat and that if you do eat meat eat everything that you buy.

We aren't going to agree on this as I am a butcher and you are a vegan. That does not preclude me from commenting as I see wish, unless you want to ban me for some unintended slight.

 

[editor]

We aren't going to agree on this as I am a butcher and you are a vegan.

Nope. Wrong.

That does not preclude me from commenting as I see wish, unless you want to ban me for some unintended slight.

Don't be so fucking melodramatic. I'm really fed up with people posting up bollocks like this. This has to be one of the most tolerant boards on the whole bloody internet and long term posters never, ever getting banned for such flippant reasons.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Their poohs were far less rank than most dogs but the gas was shocking.

Gas, well I guess you can’t really avoid that indoors. But whose job was it to inspect how rank their faeces were?

 

[WouldBe]

Funny how just about every single fucking thread that starts with something positive to say about anything to do with veganism ends up with the exact same pro-meat fanatics doing their best to dismiss everything out of hand.

Except it's not positive, it's suggestive and based on subjective rather than objective data. I don't see anyone dismissing it out of hand, as far as I can see everyone is saying more research needs to be done.

 

[editor]

I don't see anyone dismissing it out of hand, as far as I can see everyone is saying more research needs to be done.

Oh I do and it's almost exactly the same dismissive whataboutery that gets trotted out for every other vegan-related thread.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Of course most dog food is produced from those parts of animals which many people won't eat, which at the very least ensures that the whole of an animal is used rather than the more palatable parts.

My butcher sells portions of frozen stuff for dogs, two price bands, guessing one is lids and arseholes and the other a bit nicer. Both are gopping if we heat it up, but she can eat it raw. She also eats raw chicken hearts and cow trachea. But I guess it does use up bits that may otherwise get chucked away.

 

[butcher]

My butcher sells portions of frozen stuff for dogs, two price bands, guessing one is lids and arseholes and the other a bit nicer. Both are gopping if we heat it up, but she can eat it raw. She also eats raw chicken hearts and cow trachea. But I guess it does use up bits that may otherwise get chucked away.

I don't as (1) you need a separate license, (2) my waste goes to be used as fertilizer etc

I give away bones to paying customers.

 

[butcher]

Nope. Wrong.

Are you saying you are not a vegan, that we will agree?