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US House passes Obama's key healthcare reform

Just saw on the news the "penalty" for not having insurance would be something like $2,500 for an income of $100,000* or more.

Oooooh! Terrifying! How will they come up with that huge sum!?! It's inhumane!

*Anyone who makes less than that would qualify for at least some assistance.
 
Miss Caphat said:
Just saw on the news the "penalty" for not having insurance would be something like $2,500 for an income of $100,000* or more.

Oooooh! Terrifying! How will they come up with that huge sum!?! It's inhumane!

*Anyone who makes less than that would qualify for at least some assistance.
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The BBC says differently. It said anyone earning up to 133% of federal poverty levels would receive assistance.

Consider a family of 4 making $66,150–a family at 300% of the poverty level and therefore, hypothetically, at least, “subsidized.” That family would be expected to pay $6482.70 (in today’s dollars) for premiums–or $540 a month. But that family could be required to pay $7973 out of pocket for copays and so on. So if that family had a significant–but not catastrophic–medical event, it would be asked to pay its insurer almost 22% of its income to cover health care. source
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So that family would be left on their own and in the shitter because of all the out of pocket stuff.

Edit: I've probably got my numbers screwed up in terms of % of poverty. Still, if the fine is cheaper than health care you can't afford you're just gonna go for the fine then aren't you? So really this 30 million extra covered is a load of crap because most people are going to choose the fine as opposed to health care. The premiums aren't suddenly going to become lower, if anything they'll go higher because of the formation of monopolies afforded by the bill.
 
Miss Caphat said:
Just saw on the news the "penalty" for not having insurance would be something like $2,500 for an income of $100,000* or more.

Oooooh! Terrifying! How will they come up with that huge sum!?! It's inhumane!

*Anyone who makes less than that would qualify for at least some assistance.
Click to expand...

Prepare to be savaged by the kings of miserablism! They always know best.
 
tbaldwin said:
Prepare to be savaged by the kings of miserablism! They always know best.
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Why don't you read up on it, you fucking gimp? You haven't done any research at all, have you? All you've done is said "Ooo, health reform, by the Democrats too, it must be good." I done much the same thing before I looked into it.
 
TAE said:
Point number 3. Help buying insurance seemed to say that there will be help buying the insurance.
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They will be 'helped' by some tax credits. In what way is that not forcing people who can't afford to buy private health insurance to buy BUPA (without offering any limits on what BUPA can then charge etc) then offering to lend them a little bit of the cost 'to help'? In what way is that 'extending coverage'?
 
tbaldwin said:
Prepare to be savaged by the kings of miserablism! They always know best.
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Fucking hell, way to get the point absolutely arse about tit. We've been posting that the fines are so low that people who can't afford to buy the insurance will choose to pay them instead of buying the insurance and that this decision forced on them by their financial situation will then be presented as coverage offered but they opted out of their own free-will. You've got the import of that quote back to front - as you have with every single point you've tried to make in this thread.

And people on 100 grand are very likely to already have insurance aren't they? It's those earning less than the median of just over $30 000 - bringing those who earn 3 times more than that is a total joke. If you're on say 20 grand then 2% (the fine) or 8% (the estimated cost of the private insurance) both start to look a bit more daunting. So you've fucked up yet another point.

It's clear you've no actual interest in or concern about this, you're just sulking because you've been shown to be a fool. Not really what an important debate like this needs.
 
I am shocked and saddened that this bill passed, I mean obviously it's just another scam to deliver 30 million new customers to the insurance companies for the greater good of the almighty corporate dollar, but still it is too kind as it gives the waddling prats the illusion of living in a real society ruled by a government that spends money on stuff other than military industry and invading other nations (although to be fair, most of them can't stand this conception of government, what with being stupid seppoe twats that worship the likes of Ayn Rand and everything).

But mostly I'm saddened that the bill passed because I hate America, and want no compromise in the ruthless domination of the American by their brutal crypto-fascist overlords.:(

Ah well, I'm sure they'll make up for it by kicking off another pointless greedy destroy-fest invasion. Maybe they'll even bring back the draft!:)
 
tbaldwin said:
Prepare to be savaged by the kings of miserablism! They always know best.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry I don't want to participate in the grand circle jerk over this bill. I'll grant that it's marginally better than nothing, but it's still so seriously anemic in addressing the issues that you can forgive me if I'm a bit "meh" about it.
 
Miss Caphat said:
Just saw on the news the "penalty" for not having insurance would be something like $2,500 for an income of $100,000* or more.

Oooooh! Terrifying! How will they come up with that huge sum!?! It's inhumane!

*Anyone who makes less than that would qualify for at least some assistance.
Click to expand...

I'm not worried about people making $100K. I have yet to see a government program that promises benefits that wasn't seriously underfunded for what it was tasked with. And, if the Republicans get control on Congress they'll make sure of it.

And then there's the educational aspect of providing those benefits. About twice the number of people are elligible for food stamps that get them because those people don't get the information they need to apply. I see similar issues developing here.
 
dilute micro said:
Cryptic I am.
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I could not, would not, in a house.
I would not, could not, with a mouse.
I would not eat them with a fox.
I would not eat them in a box.
I would not eat them here or there.
I would not eat them anywhere.
I would not eat green eggs and ham.
I do not like them, Sam-I-am.


:p
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
And, if the Republicans get control on Congress they'll make sure of it.
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Oh of course! The republicans are the ones that won't do right.

Look at the democrats working so hard to fix social security. Look at the democrats trying to stop earmarked pork wheeling and dealing. Damn those republicans.
 
dilute micro said:
Oh of course! The republicans are the ones that won't do right.

Look at the democrats working so hard to fix social security. Look at the democrats trying to stop earmarked pork wheeling and dealing. Damn those republicans.
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They won't do that specific thing right because that's how they've always done it. There's a lot of things the Democrats don't do right either. Plenty of blame for how fucked things are to go around.

Can you see them trying to do anything other than gut this plan? They're already working on their court challenge as we speak.
 
dilute micro said:
Oh of course! The republicans are the ones that won't do right.

Look at the democrats working so hard to fix social security. Look at the democrats trying to stop earmarked pork wheeling and dealing. Damn those republicans.
Click to expand...

People denied health insurance due to prior illness etc, will now be able to get it.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
They won't do that specific thing right because that's how they've always done it. There's a lot of things the Democrats don't do right either. Plenty of blame for how fucked things are to go around.

Can you see they trying to do anything other than gut this plan? They're already working on their court challenge to it.
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Republicans are hypocrites that's true but many times the arguments they make about misspending (when it's a democrat thing) are legit. NOBODY cares about misspending of money they already have. Just ask for more - problem solved.

We trust the same people that brought us the bailouts to build a machine that will run efficiently and cost effectively. I know lots of states are going to challenge it on constitutional grounds, not that the constitution or individual rights matter anymore. ;)

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62L3B820100322
 
dilute micro said:
Republicans are hypocrites that's true but many times the arguments they make about misspending (when it's a democrat thing) are legit. NOBODY cares about misspending of money they already have. Just ask for more - problem solved.

We trust the same people that brought us the bailouts to build a machine that will run efficiently and cost effectively. I know lots of states are going to challenge it on constitutional grounds, not that the constitution or individual rights matter anymore. ;)

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62L3B820100322
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So what are you complaining about when I say that the Republicans will under fund this and try to kill it? It's factually correct. It looks like you're just mad because I'm right.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
So what are you complaining about when I say that the Republicans will under fund this and try to kill it? It's factually correct. It looks like you're just mad because I'm right.
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No because you don't even know what amount of money would be right.

You just nod at whatever price tag is put on it as long as a democrat puts it on.
 
I think you lost all credibility on the last thread and have descended into this uncomprehending weirdness as a result - arguing that posters are putting forward the opposite than they have. You look like a fool.
 
dilute micro said:
No because you don't even know what amount of money would be right.

You just nod at whatever price tag is put on it as long as a democrat puts it on.
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You acuse me of shilling for the Democrats, but the Democrats didn't even pursue what I wanted for a plan. As I've stated before this plan is only marginally better than nothing. And if you'll check post 73, I said this:

I also liked a couple of the ideas that the Republicans had such as tort reform and giving small business the ability to look across state lines to get health insurance and health insurance exchanges.
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What I do know is that there's a long history of underfunding social programs, especially health programs. Look at the VA. Look at the health care on Reservations (mandated by treaty). They're funded at a lower level per capita than that of federal prisoners.
 
butchersapron said:
It's clear you've no actual interest in or concern about this, you're just sulking because you've been shown to be a fool. Not really what an important debate like this needs.
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Yep your probably right...I mean what this debate needs is YOU.....I think Dr Carrots point about doing some research is interesting.....But what for exactly?
Its all very well doing a bit of research so that you can make yourself feel all superior but like a lot of people you just try to find the facts to suit your prejudices...Its like people interpreting the bible....getting all upset cos you wont accept there interpretation..... and just as pointless....
 
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