US House passes Obama's key healthcare reform

[Johnny Canuck3]

If the private system that the US has had up to now is so superior, there must be some evidence of that superiority in the better health of its citizens when compared to those in public health system countries.

Still waiting for dm to confirm that with some proof from somewhere...

 

[dilute micro]

You were painting pro reformers with a broad brush, ie democratic lackeys. So, I dipped my broad brush in a different can of paint, and laid on a stroke of my own.

No I was talking about Yuwipi. She's a true yellow democrat when the subject isn't reform.

 

[butchersapron]

There's 200+ post on this thread and you've not said anything despite having a quarter of them. Have some principles, have some politics - say something. I dare you.

 

[dilute micro]

So, if he used to believe in single payer, and he's now, changed his mind, as you argue, that means...come on - you can do it!


(Love the suggestion he was free of politics 7 years ago as well )

That means....3 things.

1 - he knew what had a chance of passing.

2 - you're still not good at reading comprehension.

3 - you're slow Mr apron. (he didn't really change his mind) how's that?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

No I was talking about Yuwipi. She's a true yellow democrat when the subject isn't reform.

You obviously haven't been reading my posts, you dingleberry on the anus of the far right.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

No I was talking about Yuwipi. She's a true yellow democrat when the subject isn't reform.

You said this:

Then all these people you think you care about will be fucked when the same irresponsible government that couldn't run a wedding will be in total control of health care

So, where's the proof that they will be more fucked with a public system? Where's the proof that private systems mean a healthier population than public systems?

 

[butchersapron]

That means....3 things.

1 - he knew what had a chance of passing.

2 - you're still not good at reading comprehension.

3 - you're slow Mr apron. (he didn't really change his mind) how's that?

He did change his mind as evidence by his actions, his words, his speeches and his policies (you offer no reasons as to why he really believed it at that point in 93 either), he's not a secret commie - you've had your paranoid proof destroyed in his action over the last 18 months and in this bill which ends the hope for single payer.

 

[ymu]

Comparisons like this only carry weight if all things are equal within the study. That means people in each country have to eat the same things, exercise the same, not prone to more diseases than another, culturally similar etc..

Even within my own state one section of it has higher instance of heart disease than the other regions. Pork barbecue and fast food is said to be a major reason.

What you say is true, but health outcomes are primarily influenced by poverty. The US is the richest country in the world. There's no excuse for life expectancy being 10% lower than Canada's.

 

[rikwakefield]

He did change his mind as evidence by his actions, his words, his speeches and his policies (you offer no reasons as to why he really believed it at that point in 93 either), he's not a secret commie - you've had your paranoid proof destroyed in his action over the last 18 months and in this bill which ends the hope for single payer.

How does it end the hope? He's acheived what he could at this time, and by the skin of his teeth too! Who's to say this cannot be improved upon in the future?

 

[butchersapron]

How does it end the hope? He's acheived what he could at this time, and by the skin of his teeth too! Who's to say this cannot be improved upon in the future?

By putting private health insurers at the centre of health provision for evermore. I'm not being funny, but please do some fucking research before cheerleading. He's made state funded NHS models illegal. Why do you think that is?

 

[rikwakefield]

By putting private health insurers at the centre of health provision for evermore. I'm not being funny, but please do some fucking research before cheerleading. He's made state funded NHS models illegal. Why do you think that is?

Because he's awesome?

 

[butchersapron]

That's been your open mouthed stance for 18 months yes.

 

[rikwakefield]

That's been your open mouthed stance for 18 months yes.

I just don't think you'ere worth debating with. You're one of those militantly always-right kind of people that just isn't worth it.

 

[dilute micro]

You said this:




So, where's the proof that they will be more fucked with a public system? Where's the proof that private systems mean a healthier population than public systems?

Oh I thought you were talking about a different post. (follow my quote)

The quality of care? So no matter how much this will cost everybody will be fine with it?

 

[butchersapron]

I just don't think you'ere worth debating with. You're one of those militantly always-right kind of people that just isn't worth it.

You never have once attempted to debate with me, you ignore me and any questions i ask you as regards your Obama worship. Even the most basic ones like above. And you don't need to debate with me to read my posts, the facts i highlight or the articles i link to. These you also ignore - if you were sure of your case you wouldn't. You'd do the exact opposite. You'd make an effort to engage with them.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Comparisons like this only carry weight if all things are equal within the study. That means people in each country have to eat the same things, exercise the same, not prone to more diseases than another, culturally similar etc..

People within your country are diverse, as they are in mine, and it's likely that most of the diets in the US are mirrored somewhere within Canada. I think that comparisons between our countries are fairly valid in that respect.

 

[dilute micro]

What you say is true, but health outcomes are primarily influenced by poverty. The US is the richest country in the world. There's no excuse for life expectancy being 10% lower than Canada's.

Yes there is. If Pepsi and Coke are allowed to buy their way into our kid's schools, if the whole country is brought up since toddlers on fast food, if our processed foods are jacked up on sugar and who knows what else.....then yes there is an excuse.

I guess it suffices as an excuse.

 

[dilute micro]

People within your country are diverse, as they are in mine, and it's likely that most of the diets in the US are mirrored somewhere within Canada. I think that comparisons between our countries are fairly valid in that respect.

LoL.

Canadian bacon is too lean for Americans.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

LoL.

Canadian bacon is too lean for Americans.

Well, compare us with the northernmost states, then. Less of a biscuit oriented diet in minnesota.

 

[dilute micro]

He did change his mind as evidence by his actions, his words, his speeches and his policies (you offer no reasons as to why he really believed it at that point in 93 either), he's not a secret commie - you've had your paranoid proof destroyed in his action over the last 18 months and in this bill which ends the hope for single payer.

You'd make a terrible politician.

And that's exactly why I'd vote for you.

 

[dilute micro]

Well, compare us with the northernmost states, then. Less of a biscuit oriented diet in minnesota.

I don't know the figures on the northern US - their health, their food, their wealth.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I don't know the figures on the northern US - their health, their food, their wealth.

...or their weight.

 

[dilute micro]

...or their weight.

Southerners are generally more unhealthy than the north I'm sure.

 

[Idris2002]

butchers, if you can take time off from handing micro-man his arse in a sling, let me ask you this. . .

If the Obamacare bill does not in fact, set up a USNHS, or even rules it out, then surely that means that the underlying defects of the US health care system will remain unresolved.

And if it helps prop an insurance industry that is part of a wider dysfunctional financial sector, then it will contribute to further endogenous shocks emanating from that sector, of the type we saw in 2008?

Does that not mean that in the future, there will be further crises which will have to be resolved in a way that goes beyond the present bill? You speak of the bill outlawing the USNHS 'forever'. Are you being metaphorical, or does the bill explicitly do this? Even if it does do that explicitly, will unresolved problems of health care in the US not provide a springboard for further movement towards a genuinely public, socialised health care system (they could equally, I suppose, be exploited by the right wing in its attempts to roll back Obamacare, but that isn't guaranteed)?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yes there is. If Pepsi and Coke are allowed to buy their way into our kid's schools, if the whole country is brought up since toddlers on fast food, if our processed foods are jacked up on sugar and who knows what else.....then yes there is an excuse.

I guess it suffices as an excuse.

You think your food is more processed than ours? You think Coke hasn't bought its way into canadian schools?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Southerners are generally more unhealthy than the north I'm sure.

To be fair, though, I've seen giant people pretty much anywhere I went in the states.

 

[Idris2002]

You think your food is more processed than ours? You think Coke hasn't bought its way into canadian schools?

Back in Francis Xavier in Halifax, we subsisted largely on raw maple syrup.

 

[TomUS]

You obviously haven't been reading my posts, you dingleberry on the anus of the far right.

He a right wing dingleberry that doesn't vote. They're the best kind.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Back in Francis Xavier in Halifax, we subsisted largely on raw maple syrup.

...and buggery.

 

[Idris2002]

...and buggery.

That's more of a BC thing.