US election 2020 thread
- Thread starter petee
- Start date
flypanam
Eat crisps
In electoral terms I agree except Biden’s ground game is pretty poor, non existent in Florida, although Florida is not as important as it once was. ‘Joe Biden has no ground game in Florida.’ Will Mike Bloomberg’s money change that?
His Michigan game is not good either and that is an important state. 'Worse than Hillary': Michael Moore says Biden ground game failing in swing state Michigan
Yossarian
⏭️
Just play a loop of Biden saying "Now listen here, Jack" over a Trump campaign speech and you'll probably get a reasonable facsimile.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
That Tulsa Juneteenth rally racked up something like 8 million tuned in to watch it live. The fact that the pesky kids tried to sabotage it probably motivated the faithful to tune in.
en.m.wikipedia.org
His supporters don’t care about policy or politics any longer. They just.want.Trump.to win.
Look at how intractable Marty1 is, and he hasn’t even got skin in the game. He’s a good example of how stubborn and fixated Trump voters are.
I really really hope I’m wrong about this but I’m looking at Facebook posts from his supporters (family in the US and clicking through to see the surrounding milieu) and I’m alarmed by what I see. Not because it’s extremist but because it’s so pervasiveness and expansive.
It feels the same as the first election: everyone was saying “oh it can’t possibly happen for all these logical sensible sane and obvious reasons” but as soon as I sat down with some Trump supporters and actually listended to them, I knew he’d win. It was exactly this time four years ago, the eve of the first debate. I watched that debate with some Dem supporters who were reluctantly supporting Clinton, and the next day I visited some Rep relatives and came away unsettled by what they were saying.
Trump supporters are now more entrenched, more riled up, more certain and more determined. They do not care that they’re not better off than they were, they really really don’t. The Americans Dream is not so much about what you yourself achieve as much it is about seeing that it works for someone somewhere. Here is a guy who has used every trick and slippery move available to make the dream work for him, and they fucking love him for it.
2020 Trump Tulsa rally - Wikipedia
2020 Tulsa Trump rally - Wikipedia
His supporters don’t care about policy or politics any longer. They just.want.Trump.to win.
Look at how intractable Marty1 is, and he hasn’t even got skin in the game. He’s a good example of how stubborn and fixated Trump voters are.
I really really hope I’m wrong about this but I’m looking at Facebook posts from his supporters (family in the US and clicking through to see the surrounding milieu) and I’m alarmed by what I see. Not because it’s extremist but because it’s so pervasiveness and expansive.
It feels the same as the first election: everyone was saying “oh it can’t possibly happen for all these logical sensible sane and obvious reasons” but as soon as I sat down with some Trump supporters and actually listended to them, I knew he’d win. It was exactly this time four years ago, the eve of the first debate. I watched that debate with some Dem supporters who were reluctantly supporting Clinton, and the next day I visited some Rep relatives and came away unsettled by what they were saying.
Trump supporters are now more entrenched, more riled up, more certain and more determined. They do not care that they’re not better off than they were, they really really don’t. The Americans Dream is not so much about what you yourself achieve as much it is about seeing that it works for someone somewhere. Here is a guy who has used every trick and slippery move available to make the dream work for him, and they fucking love him for it.
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
the first one of those is interesting. There is a definite advantage for Trump in that he will be far keener on face to face to canvassing at the moment, while Biden is 'responsible.' Not so sure about the polls narrowing tho, most still give Biden a strong lead - with the exception being Massachusetts uni giving complketely contradcitory numbers (Biden leading by 9 one day, but Trump leading by 4 in a poll begun the next day?!).
Sadly, after his last film, I'd want to see a report from a more reliable source than Moore re Michigan (tho he did call it right last time).
petee
no gods, no malarkey
the lincoln project stated explicitly that this was their aim.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
None of that will dent him. It may actually work in his favour. It will demonstrate to the faithful that the system is out to demolish him, so they’ve be more motivated to support him. Drain the swamp!
He’s their champion, and they’re rooting for him as they do for their football team. The more like a wounded warrior he seems, the more they’ll work to carry him over the finish line.
He’s their champion, and they’re rooting for him as they do for their football team. The more like a wounded warrior he seems, the more they’ll work to carry him over the finish line.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
The faithful are faithful and will remain so till they die. Which could well be before November.
It’s the ones who voted for Obama in 2012 who switched or stayed at home that matter.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Trump will certainly appeal to them
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
If they stay home in any number (which is possible to likely) Trump will win.
If most of them come out it will be a close run thing with huge complications arising from that, and a possible firestorm.
They all need to come out. All of them. But they won’t, will they.
The levels of apathy here are depressing but from what I’ve seen, the way people stay out of the process in the US is a kind of absenteeism that doesn’t make sense from the U.K. end of the telescope.
gosub
~#
Defense is half of US discretionary spending (@ about $650billion.) How is putting a watchdog in the Pentagon who has no defence experience draining the swamp? The bloke has tried to sell it as a virtue, that it would make him an arbiter of fact and that speaking truth to power was crucial. Taking him at his word; I think not having a scooby and being dependant on others for insight would make for a watchdog less capable of judging which facts were pertinent.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Because they they don’t see Joe as a viable alternative. Because they’re worried that if Trump loses his tantrum will be so monumental that the risk is too great, they don’t want to trigger him. Because “what’s the bloody point”. Because they don’t want a “socialist” as much as /more than they don’t don’t want Trump. Because they don’t trust the process (rigged ballot blah blah). Because of that pathological absenteeism I spoke of. Because they don’t feel eel courted or appeased enough to vote. Because their friends/family are voting differently to them and it undermine some their own determination to vote (polls suggest this is happening). So many reasons.
I might be wrong, I hope I'm wrong. But I got a bad feeling about this.
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thehill.com
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
This is rational and sensible. It won’t fly with most voters. It’s too nuanced. It’s become “us vs them”.
I can’t argue this in any detail because it’s a gut feeling I have.
It’s making me miserable tbh.
It looks and feels to me as if the US is under the cosh of an abuser, and trying to debate and explain why they should escape the abuse is as pointless as it is with any abusive relationship.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
My fear is that a narrow win for Biden may well play out far worse than a clear win for Trump.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Are children burning The Rock's movies now that he's endorsed Joe Biden?
It's good to start them young
I wanted to post the twitters on this, but I think some of them have been have warning labels, etc.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
you missed a big one - people who don’t bother voting because their vote won’t make a difference to the outcome, which is the situation in a majority of states which always fall to the same party. Proportional delegates would make their votes count and might get a few more out voting.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
That comes under “what’s the point” but I guess I could have differentiated more precisely.
(See also “whoever you vote for the govt gets in” , electoral college decision, all the Supreme Court judges - therefore judicial outcomes - being fixed in place for another generation, memory of Gore winning despite winning, “we tried with Obama and it came to naught”, etc. All this is akin to the learned helplessness abuse victims struggle with, which keeps them trapped under the cosh; as I said earlier I think there’s a comparable pattern at play here.)
Those votes, as you say, wouldn’t make any difference to the outcome on the night but could conceivably form some significant part of the following chapter.
(See also “whoever you vote for the govt gets in” , electoral college decision, all the Supreme Court judges - therefore judicial outcomes - being fixed in place for another generation, memory of Gore winning despite winning, “we tried with Obama and it came to naught”, etc. All this is akin to the learned helplessness abuse victims struggle with, which keeps them trapped under the cosh; as I said earlier I think there’s a comparable pattern at play here.)
Those votes, as you say, wouldn’t make any difference to the outcome on the night but could conceivably form some significant part of the following chapter.
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spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Never really understand why they need an electoral college. So, no, their votes don't really count.
I like our system. Regions elect someone to parliament, party with the most elected members form the government.
Simple idea.
At the end of election day, we know who is in power.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
That isn’t that far off what the yanks (or we) do. It’s just that their regions are a damned sight larger - except for the ones that aren’t. The uk has elected governments who lost the overall vote. Managed to elect a government with only 35% of the vote.
Four hung Canadian parliaments in recent years too.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Canada has vast regions - like the States.
UK is all squished together.
By hung, do you mean a minority government?
I like minority governments.
But to have a minority government, you would have to have more than two parties.
Only two parties is a recipe for disaster.
krtek a houby
Sail hatin'
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
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