Urban v's the Commentariat
- Thread starter Belushi
- Start date
revol68
what, fucking what?
LP has had many tweets of support actually. "actually, many Muslim women have contacted me to say they agree completely and thank you."
Meanwhile, she has failed to offer some #solidarity to the Rote Flora rioters.
many PMs of support, clearly she lurks here.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I've re-read that tiny piece from last night. It's even worse sober. i think that may well be as low as she can reach - everything is there - the crap writing, the fingr in the chest, the racist shouts, the attempts to ingratiate with 'non-white' people, the utter liberal logic, the failure to challenge whilst challenging, the falling back on victim logic, the lack of info/knowledge and the bewigged voice of those born to rule and born to judge.
And the corrections.
And the corrections.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That works just as well. I wonder what other term we can fit in without doing violence to te logic of the claim?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Western men - seriously? 
Western men. Wow. Beyond wow. Beyond wow wow.
Western men. Wow. Beyond wow. Beyond wow wow.
I'm not able to express myself perfectly here because it's an area I'm not totally familiar with, but:
How much of this has to do with a post-modern rejection of universality? Muslim women, black women, white women; Muslim men, black men, white men; western men and western women, etc. - there is nothing that ties these different groups together, there cannot be solidarity, each is alien to the other and in competition. "White, western feminism" is secular. "Non-white, non-western feminism" is assumed to be religious - and making a critique of the role of religion in ideologically justifying the oppression of women is oppressive behaviour because it means assuming that religious women are victims who have been brainwashed into believing, instead of active subjects who have made a choice to do so.
How much of this has to do with a post-modern rejection of universality? Muslim women, black women, white women; Muslim men, black men, white men; western men and western women, etc. - there is nothing that ties these different groups together, there cannot be solidarity, each is alien to the other and in competition. "White, western feminism" is secular. "Non-white, non-western feminism" is assumed to be religious - and making a critique of the role of religion in ideologically justifying the oppression of women is oppressive behaviour because it means assuming that religious women are victims who have been brainwashed into believing, instead of active subjects who have made a choice to do so.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The key part is the second bit there - it's a rejection on universalism on the basis of local essentialisms. A local segregated universalism. With people like laurie floating above and playing the role of the state - the voice/body that unites all the various segregated civil interests in their person.
I'm going to do some anti-intersectionalist theory: i'm a white working class male from immigrant parents brought up on a council estate and didn't go to university - as a result i share many experiences with others without us being identical. My experiences are directly communicable - and are beyond the individual level. I think that's a good start point and would encourage others to recognise this.
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chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Oh no you're not.
You're western men.
Same as Hitler, jimmy saville and David beckham.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's why this stuff is so pro-staus quo. They think different means non-communicable. Except through them.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
But, on the good side, Ross Mccormack
rekil
to menny cranks
The New Statesman editor's top 25 articles of the year. Only two are by women (neither of whom are LP(!)), and there are no 'POCs', unless Simon Kuper who was born in Uganda counts.
http://www.newstatesman.com/media/2013/12/editors-picks-jason-cowley-best-reading-2013
http://www.newstatesman.com/media/2013/12/editors-picks-jason-cowley-best-reading-2013
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I enjoyed Kupers book with rijkard gobbing on Voeler on the front. I've only recently realised it's intersectional ramifications though.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The modern equivalent of the priestly caste, fulfilling the mediating role between power and person.
I wonder how well they'll burn?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I notice he listed 3 of John Bew's articles. Bew must be an expensive new hire, and Cowley is after puffing him like fuck, because only the Attlee article was any good, the other two sucked shit through a straw.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Personally, I prefer Vim to Ajax.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Bet she won't comment on either of those statements - lack of articles by women, and lack of articles by POC authors. Intersectionality ftw.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
The New Statesman's latest columnist, yesterday:
Is it because I is black?
xslavearcx
time for a nu-metal revival?
Whats a bit ironic in that article is that in its accusations of islamaphobia is that she seems to posit a rather essentialist notion on stances towards segregation within islamic discourse - which rests upon a notion of islam as a 'monolithic block' - the very kind of 'closed' conception of islam that constitutes islamaphobia according to the main definition of what islamphobia is as advanced by the runnymedie report on islamaphobia. Also her article seems close to positing islam as separate and 'other' in her attempt to divide it off from western feminism and western men etc which seems to infer that it "does not have values in common with other cultures, that is not affected by them and does not influence them" (runnymede report on islamaphobia) - the second dimension of a closed view of islam according to said report. So she is, in effect, using 'islamaphobic' arguments to challenge islamaphobia!
toggle
wobbly
there's a definate assumption underlying this, that western feminism is all fully secular and not at all influenced by christianity while feminism in islamic countries/cultures is all working within parameters that does not challenge doctrines and should alsays be presented as such, and the women in islamic cultures that do challenge too much are to be ignored, because our secularism is great, theirs is disrespectful of their culture and too influenced by the west.
the only thing that is there that makes sence ins't actually spelled out - that an outsider telling women what to do to become unoppressed isn't relieving oppression, it is replacing one set of externally imposed rules with another.
xslavearcx
time for a nu-metal revival?
Absolutly, not to mention how influences that some methods that arise out of 'western' academies get utilised by muslim feminists. For example, Asma Barlas in her book believing women in islam: unreading patriarchal interpretations of the qur'an she uses hermenteutic methodologies derived from that discourse and 'western feminists'.
Beyond that there's also the matter of how General Ul Huq used the deliberate policy of the veil and the wall to consolidate power,strengthen his allies on the conservative religious right and at a stroke silence the voice of a considerable proportion of the secular progressive opposition and critically undermine the rest
I liked it because it's true.
Western men do disguise their Islamophobia behind a flimsy facade of feminism.
It's been going on for ages. I well recall how we supposedly invaded Afghanistan because we were so worried that girls weren't going to school or something. Oldest trick in their book. Works too.
xslavearcx
time for a nu-metal revival?
I think paternalistic reasons are often sought as pretexts for doing other things, but i don't think when it comes to issues like that that these motivations are always the case; whereas in that article LP seems to be making the inference that this is what underlies it at all times...
AFAIK Western interests are more likely to follow oil and gas.
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