cupid_stunt
Where's the bloody sun?
I am surprised you decided to promote those shirts on here, I had no idea they were available.
<heads off to buy one>
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-25
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
I am surprised you decided to promote those shirts on here, I had no idea they were available.
<heads off to buy one>
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of us applauding more and better weapons for Ukraine are hoping they will limit the bloodshed by shortening the war. Perhaps this is naive? And/or perhaps we are undervaluing the lives of young Russians who have no choice but to fight? If not for Putin there'd have been no invasion in 2014 or 2022.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
will no-one think of the young Russians
-wrings hands-
-wrings hands-
ska invita
back on the other side
At a very rough calculation this war has given the arms trade a boost of a hundred billion dollars.... Of tax payers money at that.
8ball
#notallwomenz
Yeah, but… something something jobs?
maomao
普費斯
It's a human tragedy in Russia too. Tens of thousands of sons, fathers and husbands never coming home and as many crippled or maimed for life. And if it does go all the way we can hang on to the hope of rubbish Russian missiles but they'll be flattened for sure. Do Russians not deserve your sympathy by virtue of their government?
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
what a stupid question
maomao
普費斯
So what was your point?
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
My point (if it was anything much to do with you) is that we should not be wringing our hands about dead Russian soldiers in Ukraine. There is no "the Russians"...of course I have enormous sympathy with the Russian opposition, people in Russia who hate this but have no choice but to be silent, young ethnic minorities pressganged into going there since the war started.
For people winding up dead through military adventurism / professional Russian soldiers & mercenaries carrying out criminal and illegal orders, engaged in widespread looting, rape, indiscriminate destruction, mass deporation, manning filtration camps, state-sponsored child abduction...forgive me for not giving a shit if they are killed.
For people winding up dead through military adventurism / professional Russian soldiers & mercenaries carrying out criminal and illegal orders, engaged in widespread looting, rape, indiscriminate destruction, mass deporation, manning filtration camps, state-sponsored child abduction...forgive me for not giving a shit if they are killed.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
The ones commiting war crimes. No fuck them.
You don't need a 4 hour power point presentation to know shooting civillians ,rape and stealing anything not nailed down is wrong.
The weapons being sent are mostly 2nd hand so already been paid for. So would either be fired off in training or scrapped.
A Russian was claiming the worst thing for Russia is the soldiers who come back will have been brutalised like the afgan veterans before them and be ready recruits for the Russian mafia.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
If this is like most other wars then the ones doing those things are not generally the ones doing the fighting and getting maimed or killed. I think the casualties on the Russian side are entirely deserving of prayer and sympathy, as are their families.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
I'm sure the survivors from settlements like Bucha absolutely appreciate this nuance (the frontline unit was decorated by Putin, incidentally).
gosub
~#
Depends how they conduct themselves
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
No Russian soldier is legally compelled to fight in Ukraine.
If Russia was at war then they would be, but according to Putin this war is not a war.
Oh, days since Russian General’s dead = none.
Meat grinder.
If Russia was at war then they would be, but according to Putin this war is not a war.
Oh, days since Russian General’s dead = none.
Meat grinder.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
I think if you had signed up then you kind of were. Orders and that.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
I absolutely want the Ukrainians to win this horrible war.
I feel sorry for the low rank guys - often barely out of childhood - sent to their deaths by the Russian state for no good reason.
It's shit that many of those are people from ethinic minorities looked down on by Slavic Russians. Ditto poor people. Obviously a big overlap there.
It'd be impossible to work out exactly how many people could/couldn't say no to fighting. I doubt those without much social capital felt in a position to refuse.
Fuck those who've committed war crimes.
Whole things a horrible bloody mess.
I feel sorry for the low rank guys - often barely out of childhood - sent to their deaths by the Russian state for no good reason.
It's shit that many of those are people from ethinic minorities looked down on by Slavic Russians. Ditto poor people. Obviously a big overlap there.
It'd be impossible to work out exactly how many people could/couldn't say no to fighting. I doubt those without much social capital felt in a position to refuse.
Fuck those who've committed war crimes.
Whole things a horrible bloody mess.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Wait till you see the aftermath
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
maomao
普費斯
Didn't know that. I thought there were ways out for conscientious objectors etc. They need a union.
My basic point still stands, blame the system not the canon fodder and don't revel in death.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
If you're a conscientious objector perhaps the forces aren't the job for you
cupid_stunt
Where's the bloody sun?
Don't be fucking daft, they sign-up for shit, they are not called up as part of national service.
maomao
普費斯
Don't be fucking daft, they sign-up for shit, they are not called up as part of national service.
The US army has a conscientious objector get out:
Conscientious Objectors
The number of Soldiers applying to be classified as conscientious objectors remains small, about 0.01% of the force.
www.army.mil
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
The hazing of recruits in the Russian army is so brutal that it would be worthy of Caligula. Not hard to understand why there are rapists and torturers in the ranks. Dedovshchina - Wikipedia
PTK
Paul Kegan
Members of the British army could have avoided going to Iraq by stating that they had a concientious objection to fighting there.
ska invita
back on the other side
"according to Nuremberg Principle IV, such an order is sometimes "unlawful" according to international law. Such an "unlawful order" presents a legal dilemma from which there is no legal escape: On one hand, a person who refuses such an unlawful order faces the possibility of legal punishment at the national level. On the other hand, a person who accepts such an unlawful order faces the possibility of legal punishment at the international level.
Nuremberg Principle II responds to that dilemma by stating: "The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law."[45]
This might present a legal dilemma, but Nuremberg Principle IV speaks of "a moral choice" as being just as important as legal decisions: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him".
maomao
普費斯
Strangely, you're right. I shouldn't blindly believe the numpties on here:
maomao
普費斯
If you get a discharge (which does happen, there were 6 on grounds of conscientious objection between 2001 and 2010) then you're not in a regiment anymore. That's how discharges work.
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nogojones
spelling is overrated
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