Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[Yuwipi Woman]

A better question - why would anyone believe what our government says, without confirmation from more independent sources?

Clue - there's a propaganda war going on.

TBH, I'm taking all news sources with a grain of salt. Many of the reports I've seen, seem to be playing upon emotion rather than just giving us the facts. I'm suspicious of any attempt to manipulate emotion, no matter who it comes from.

 

[hitmouse]

Riot police have gone in. A rich mans property was under threat, nothing else matters.

Yeah, no need to wait for a court order this time, they've apparently decided to go for (at least the threat/excuse) of burglary charges:


Seems like a bit of a shit precedent to set?

 

[dilute micro]

Yeah, no need to wait for a court order this time, they've apparently decided to go for (at least the threat/excuse) of burglary charges:


Seems like a bit of a shit precedent to set?

What would arson get them?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

yes, I'm sure Biden very much does not want to be 'the president who started ww3'. And yet here we are, maybe it's an illusion that it's up to him.

I don't think it is. Sooner or later someone is going to overstep or miscalculate. That might even be Biden for all we know, but its likely he's going to err on the side of appeasement.

 

[Sprocket.]

I don't think it is. Sooner or later someone is going to overstep or miscalculate. That might even be Biden for all we know, but its likely he's going to err on the side of appeasement.

I sincerely hope so.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

What an unbelievably brave woman.

 

[shaman75]

 

[kabbes]

I see that the idea of a NFZ has been in this thread again in the last few pages. Whatever happens next, whatever NATO decides to do, make no mistake that a NFZ is a declaration of war against Russia. Those calling for a NFZ seem to be under the impression that it just involves calling it a NFZ and then patrolling with planes, maybe also having a few anti-aircraft missile batteries around the place. But that’s not what happens. If the US want to make a NFZ, the first thing they will do is pre-emptively take out all the other side’s anti-air missiles. You know, the ones they have in Russia. So to make a NFZ, the US will need to preemptively attack Russian targets in Russia. That’s all-out war, it’s not just being a peacekeeper.

 

[hitmouse]

Crossposting here, interesting text from Lviv about life during wartime:

Private Site

enoughisenough14.org

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I see that the idea of a NFZ has been in this thread again in the last few pages. Whatever happens next, whatever NATO decides to do, make no mistake that a NFZ is a declaration of war against Russia. Those calling for a NFZ seem to be under the impression that it just involves calling it a NFZ and then patrolling with planes, maybe also having a few anti-aircraft missile batteries around the place. But that’s not what happens. If the US want to make a NFZ, the first thing they will do is pre-emptively take out all the other side’s anti-air missiles. You know, the ones they have in Russia. So to make a NFZ, the US will need to preemptively attack Russian targets in Russia. That’s all-out war, it’s not just being a peacekeeper.

Yeah I think everyone knows that. I don't think anyone has specifically called for a no fly zone on here. I was just criticising our resident Putin rimmer for actually blaming the Ukrainians for calling for one. They're not gonna get it, we know they're not gonna get it for the reasons you mentioned but I don't think Ukrainians deserve criticism for wanting it.

 

[Pickman's model]

What do you think?

 

[cupid_stunt]

I see that the idea of a NFZ has been in this thread again in the last few pages. Whatever happens next, whatever NATO decides to do, make no mistake that a NFZ is a declaration of war against Russia. Those calling for a NFZ seem to be under the impression that it just involves calling it a NFZ and then patrolling with planes, maybe also having a few anti-aircraft missile batteries around the place. But that’s not what happens. If the US want to make a NFZ, the first thing they will do is pre-emptively take out all the other side’s anti-air missiles. You know, the ones they have in Russia. So to make a NFZ, the US will need to preemptively attack Russian targets in Russia. That’s all-out war, it’s not just being a peacekeeper.

It only came up again because of that R2D2 Putin bot.

We know it would involve hitting targets not just in Russia, but sites in Belarus, and Russian warships in the Black Sea too.

 

[Aladdin]

He says lots of things.

How would he even go about it? Get the Russian army to sweep through Finland and head down the length of the country to Stockholm? They're having enough trouble with logistics on the short drive from Belarus to Kiev. Aquatic invasion across the Baltic? Has the Russian navy got enough boats?

And that's if he actually wanted to. Has he ever shown any sign that he does, besides some belligerent rhetoric?

The Finns have been on alert for decades because of the ever present threat of a Russian invasion. They have underground cities fully stocked in case of a war with Russia... nuclear war.

 

[cupid_stunt]

What an unbelievably brave woman.

Brave woman indeed.

 

[existentialist]

I see that the idea of a NFZ has been in this thread again in the last few pages. Whatever happens next, whatever NATO decides to do, make no mistake that a NFZ is a declaration of war against Russia. Those calling for a NFZ seem to be under the impression that it just involves calling it a NFZ and then patrolling with planes, maybe also having a few anti-aircraft missile batteries around the place. But that’s not what happens. If the US want to make a NFZ, the first thing they will do is pre-emptively take out all the other side’s anti-air missiles. You know, the ones they have in Russia. So to make a NFZ, the US will need to preemptively attack Russian targets in Russia. That’s all-out war, it’s not just being a peacekeeper.

I completely get why Ukraine is demanding a no fly zone...and they will know full well that they won't get it. But they will get two things: one, everything short of an NFZ - MANPADS, AT rockets, maybe even some more "fixed" air defence stuff, such as Patriot; and, two, it keeps Russian air and missile strikes nice and high on the news agenda, which in its turn keeps the West motivated to supply weapons.

 

[existentialist]

Brave woman indeed.

You can only imagine the nature of the "questioning"

 

[mauvais]

A NFZ is much better thought of as "air war". That said, I suspect the US is probably technically capable of implementing a NFZ without the risk of either its own losses or Russian losses on Russian territory, should it want to commit. But it would be quite high risk and an escalation in any case.

 

[teqniq]

Here is the the woman who appeared behind a presenter with an anti war poster did beforehand with translation (thread):

 

[2hats]

I see that the idea of a NFZ has been in this thread again in the last few pages.

Besides which, can't see people being too eager to fly CAP over a region that they have just saturated with assorted AA weapons in the hands of a myriad of persons with varying and limited degrees of communication, training.

 

[RD2003]

It only came up again because of that R2D2 Putin bot.

We know it would involve hitting targets not just in Russia, but sites in Belarus, and Russian warships in the Black Sea too.

It came up again because the Ukrainian government minister brought it up, as quoted further up the thread.

 

[A380]

I wouldn't be surprised if similar is happening on game platforms.

Call of Duty tractor expansion pack?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Analysis of possible outcomes by a Chinese policy thinker. Worth a read:

Possible Outcomes of the Russo-Ukrainian War and China's Choice | U.S.-China Perception Monitor

Hu Wei is the vice-chairman of the Public Policy Research Center of the Counselor's Office of the State Council.

uscnpm.org

China wants to be seen as the global power they were always meant to be. They are on track to overtake the US as the world's largest economy fairly soon. If they want to show that they're a real world power, they need to get off the fence. To quote Spiderman completely out of context: "With great power, comes great responsibility."

 

[teqniq]

 

[cupid_stunt]

It came up again because the Ukrainian government minister brought it up, as quoted further up the thread.

The Ukrainian government has brought it up daily for over a week, you brought it up on this thread today, because you like trolling.

 

[RD2003]

The Ukrainian government has brought it up daily for over a week, you brought it up on this thread today, because you like trolling.

What you don't want to hear isn't just trolling.

Is it trolling whenever the Guardian other all other media quote the Ukrainian government asking for a nfz again?

 

[cupid_stunt]

What you don't want to hear isn't just trolling.

Is it trolling when the Guardian other all other media quote the Ukrainian government asking for a nfz?

Which part of 'the Ukrainian government has brought it up daily for over a week', are you struggling with???????????????????????????????????

 

[shaman75]

What do you think?

About that? That things are getting tense in Russia. But, on the other hand, it's the only report I've seen of such action.

 

[cupid_stunt]

About that? That things are getting tense in Russia. But, on the other hand, it's the only report I've seen of such action.

And, TBF, would have probably have been better posting on the Ukraine: Unsubstantiated rumours and speculation thread.

 

[Indeliblelink]

Earlier today

Lapid vows Israel won’t be a ‘route to bypass’ sanctions on Russia

Visiting Slovakia, FM says government ministries, financial institutions and Bank of Israel coordinating on matter; condemns Russian invasion of Ukraine

www.timesofisrael.com

Tonight

Israeli government sites crash in cyberattack

***

www.haaretz.com

A defense establishment source claims that this is the largest-ever cyberattack carried out against Israel

Also see Abramovich's private jet landed in Israel last night [he has Israeli citizenship]

Abramovich jet lands in Turkey after Russian oligarch seen in Israel

A jet linked to sanctioned Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich arrived in Istanbul from Israel on Monday, shortly after he was seen in Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion airport.

www.reuters.com

 

[cupid_stunt]

Tonight

Israeli government sites crash in cyberattack

***

www.haaretz.com

A defense establishment source claims that this was the largest-ever cyberattack carried out against Israel. They believe that a state actor or large organization is carried out the attack, but cannot yet determine who is behind it.

I am sure the penny will drop fairly quickly.