Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[shagnasty]

Either pretend you understand or Commandante Butchers will have you up against the wall quicker than you can say 'and I thought Stalin was an arsehole'.

Citizen smith had an execution book,but i don't think butchers has one

 

[butchersapron]

Um...HOPE not hate takes a position on UKIP

 

[cantsin]

Um...HOPE not hate takes a position on UKIP

whatever the conclusions and subsequent positions UAF take up re: UKIP, that seems a pretty open and positive process by which to come to them tbh.

 

[treelover]

One of the main differences between UKIP and the euro-nationalist parties is that the latter are largely pro-welfare, albeit not for everyone, whereas UKIP are rabidly anti-welfare state, etc...

 

[treelover]

btw,does HNH have a position on open borders?

 

[junglevip]

Um...HOPE not hate takes a position on UKIP

Note to self:

Read later...

 

[butchersapron]

whatever the conclusions and subsequent positions UAF take up re: UKIP, that seems a pretty open and positive process by which to come to them tbh.

At first glance maybe but then on second look things appear a little odd - for example, the vote on whether to campaign against UKIP, 67% voted for this. Lowles then decided that they didn't really mean yes when they voted yes, they really mean no and so there is to be no campaign. More here.

 

[malatesta32]

UKIP just won gooshays local. 831 votes, 30%. better than BNP 202, 9%.

 

[rosecore]

They perpetuate the idea that you can simply walk into another EU country and claim benefits, that's an outright lie - http://t.co/HFszUIRe90

 

[J Ed]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/22/will-sun-back-ukip-2015

I think that UKIP is being backed by Murdoch in the same way that he backed the Tea Party in the US, he is trying to push the overall political discourse to the right. The policies of UKIP and the Tea Party are remarkably similar, both claim to be freemarket libertarians while espousing what is basically a right-wing populist position. For example, the Tea Party claims to be pro-freemarket but supports a nationalised healthcare for the elderly in the form of medicare, UKIP claims to be libertarian while advocating the scrapping of tuition fees

You have a very similar populist, walking the zipline of acceptability, attitude towards race. UKIP, like The Tea Party, has a few 'non-white' members but its positions are utterly designed to appeal to the racial majority. The Tea Party made a lot of the 'Ground Zero Mosque' issue and Mexican immigration. UKIP wants to ban burkhas and whips up hatred against the prospect of an increase in Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants, they are even holding a demonstration against them.

Both the Tea Party and UKIP are being used to divert what would be serious opposition to neoliberalism into an ideology that is ostensibly anti-establishment but in reality would facilitate a kind of hyper-neoliberalism. This tactic is eerily familiar of the way in which the establishment used fascism and right-wing Catholic social teaching to divert people from socialism in the early 20th Century.

 

[Dan U]

I wonder what all the libertarian supporters of UKIP think of the proposals to ban benefit claimants spending money on booze, sky TV etc. It's up for debate st the UKIP conference apparently

Will they complain or will they think freedom only applies to them...

 

[rosecore]

Turning public anger from the banks, tax avoiders and tax evaders to the scapegoats of the poorest - Immigrants, the unemployed, the sick. Every major party has turned right on the immigration debate, it gives Ukip an oxygen that should not exist.

 

[Dogsauce]

UKIP announced Jon Gaunt as a member at their conference today - someone that will definitely appeal to racist white van driving pricks everywhere. He was on Murdoch's payroll too before he got kicked off talk radio. I smell a rat.

This is going to be pushed as an 'anti establishment' thing isn't it? The right-wing press, furious at being reigned in by Leveson, are going to see this as revenge against the mainstream parties - a reminder who runs things, a reminder of whose agenda should be followed.


Bring on Scottish independence, I'll head north over the border, no way in hell I'll accept the rule of these fucking cuckoo clocks.

 

[Joe Reilly]

UKIP just won gooshays local. 831 votes, 30%. better than BNP 202, 9%.

Actually UKIP took 38.9% while BNP took 9.47%. So as good as 50% between them.

 

[rosecore]

Actually UKIP took 38.9% while BNP took 9.47%. So as good as 50% between them.

20% turnout. Minority parties always make gains from these.

 

[Quartz]

A point I've just seen in The Guardian is that the Telegraph seem to be moving away from the Tories.

 

[The39thStep]

Maybe people are worried about immigration and Europe?

 

[Quartz]

20% turnout. Minority parties always make gains from these.

True, but they can start a bandwagon going.

 

[butchersapron]

20% turnout. Minority parties always make gains from these.

Not always and not exclusively - at the height of the BNP success they were able to win seats by getting previous non-voters out. And here, if you combine the BNP/UKIP vote, you find that they managed to withstand a low turnout, that is they demonstrated a motivated vote - the only other group who managed that was a residents association.

 

[Joe Reilly]

20% turnout. Minority parties always make gains from these.

Nothing to worry about then.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They perpetuate the idea that you can simply walk into another EU country and claim benefits, that's an outright lie - http://t.co/HFszUIRe90

Yup. It's pretty difficult to do even after you've actually contributed to the tax system of those countries with reciprocal arrangements, too, let alone trying to open a claim straight away.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Turning public anger from the banks, tax avoiders and tax evaders to the scapegoats of the poorest - Immigrants, the unemployed, the sick. Every major party has turned right on the immigration debate, it gives Ukip an oxygen that should not exist.

It's a historically-proven distraction tactic in times of economic crisis. Frankly, I'd be more worried if they weren't trying to get the immigration dog to bark - it might imply they had something even more nauseating up their collective political sleeves.

 

[Badgers]

Is it because they are copying and pasting old Nick Griffin tweets?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Maybe people are worried about immigration and Europe?

I'm sure some people are.
It's pretty hard to separate genuine and rational concern from irrational scaremongering at the moment, though, with the amount of media noise.

 

[treelover]

It's a historically-proven distraction tactic in times of economic crisis. Frankly, I'd be more worried if they weren't trying to get the immigration dog to bark - it might imply they had something even more nauseating up their collective political sleeves.

benefit swipe cards limiting purchases is bad enough..

 

[The39thStep]

I'm sure some people are.
It's pretty hard to separate genuine and rational concern from irrational scaremongering at the moment, though, with the amount of media noise.

But that has been the same for the past five , perhaps even more years.

 

[Pickman's model]

UKIP announced Jon Gaunt as a member at their conference today - someone that will definitely appeal to racist white van driving pricks everywhere. He was on Murdoch's payroll too before he got kicked off talk radio. I smell a rat.

This is going to be pushed as an 'anti establishment' thing isn't it? The right-wing press, furious at being reigned in by Leveson, are going to see this as revenge against the mainstream parties - a reminder who runs things, a reminder of whose agenda should be followed.


Bring on Scottish independence, I'll head north over the border, no way in hell I'll accept the rule of these fucking cuckoo clocks.

Yeh go to scotland where one alex salmond may as well get paid by murdoch for what he does without charge.

 

[Pickman's model]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/22/will-sun-back-ukip-2015

I think that UKIP is being backed by Murdoch in the same way that he backed the Tea Party in the US, he is trying to push the overall political discourse to the right. The policies of UKIP and the Tea Party are remarkably similar, both claim to be freemarket libertarians while espousing what is basically a right-wing populist position. For example, the Tea Party claims to be pro-freemarket but supports a nationalised healthcare for the elderly in the form of medicare, UKIP claims to be libertarian while advocating the scrapping of tuition fees

You have a very similar populist, walking the zipline of acceptability, attitude towards race. UKIP, like The Tea Party, has a few 'non-white' members but its positions are utterly designed to appeal to the racial majority. The Tea Party made a lot of the 'Ground Zero Mosque' issue and Mexican immigration. UKIP wants to ban burkhas and whips up hatred against the prospect of an increase in Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants, they are even holding a demonstration against them.

Both the Tea Party and UKIP are being used to divert what would be serious opposition to neoliberalism into an ideology that is ostensibly anti-establishment but in reality would facilitate a kind of hyper-neoliberalism. This tactic is eerily familiar of the way in which the establishment used fascism and right-wing Catholic social teaching to divert people from socialism in the early 20th Century.

Where did 'the establishment' use fascism and right-wing catholic social teaching in the uk? Pls remind me.

 

[J Ed]

Where did 'the establishment' use fascism and right-wing catholic social teaching in the uk? Pls remind me.

I'm not talking about the UK in the first instance

 

[ViolentPanda]

But that has been the same for the past five , perhaps even more years.

At the same level? Or has it actually oscillated up and down, depending on what other distracytions have been available?