Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[ViolentPanda]

benefit swipe cards limiting purchases is bad enough..

Such a scheme failed before, on a much smaller scale. IMO it's pie in the sky until they have a robust technical solution in place, unless they want thousands of skint, pissed-off people besieging their local DWP offices.

 

[Pickman's model]

.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not talking about the UK in the first instance

as this thread's about the uk I find that rather surprising.

 

[treelover]

Such a scheme failed before, on a much smaller scale. IMO it's pie in the sky until they have a robust technical solution in place, unless they want thousands of skint, pissed-off people besieging their local DWP offices.

Mastercard are working with Demos(the well know 'centre left' think tank) on it, i think they will create a workable model, Aus already has it, the fact UKIP are endorsing it sadly makes it much more likely as Tories don't want to be outflanked..

 

[ViolentPanda]

Mastercard are working with Demos(the well know 'centre left' think tank) on it, i think they will create a workable model, Aus already has it, the fact UKIP are endorsing it sadly makes it much more likely as Tories don't want to be outflanked..

The Aussie scheme is considerably more simple than Demos' proposals. The Basics card doesn't have Australia-wide coverage; it isn't used for all benefits, or all benefits recipients, and relies (like the voucher scheme over here) on retailers collaborating. It also relies on retailers billing the item under the correct code. Fine of the retailer scans products and uses an EPOS system, not so fine if the retailer works a till manually, in which case you can ring a product into any code you like. The devil is, as always, in the detail. The more complex the scheme, the greater probability of it failing, like so many of the govts' vanguard IT schemes.

 

[where to]

Latest poll by TRS brmb has ukip on 17 (seventeen) %.

 

[pinkmonkey]

My mother (retired state registered childminder) announced she's voting for them. In her case I don't think it's an anti eu/ immigration stance - there are virtually no immigrants in the small Yorks mining town she lives in. No way is she racist. I think it's more a case of the other parties being utterly rubbish. My town has been labour as long as I've lived. Mum loathes the Tories, she needs an eye operation and can barely see. It was cancelled because of NHS cuts, after Condems came to power. She may have voted libdems in the past.
I've no idea what dad thinks of this (Nalgo member, staunch socialist). I haven't asked him!

 

[starfish2000]

Ukip are naive old tories from the 80 s who never saw that privatisation would lead to globalisation and that globalisation would lead to a migrant mobile labour force that would compete for part time work with their offspring.

 

[butchersapron]

Did you read the post before yours?

 

[1927]

Havent read the whole thread, but I thinks its simply that no major party has been prepared to engage with the electorate and propose an immigration policy that the populace as a whole find acceptable.

 

[ymu]

Havent read the whole thread, but I thinks its simply that no major party has been prepared to engage with the electorate and propose an immigration policy that the populace as a whole find acceptable.

I think it's because all parties (up until this amazingly self-destructive lot) have encouraged immigration whilst demonising immigrants.

Immigration is necessary for growth in low birth-rate (aka rich) countries (one reason Japan appears to be doing so badly economically, their GDP growth per capita is actually quite strong). It's also cheaper to import skills than train people, and harder to unionise immigrants. And, of course, ~5% unemployment is 'necessary' for capitalism to remain profitable (partly by putting downward pressure on wages by keeping a reserve army of labour around to scare the workers with, and partly by controlling inflation).

This is why the CBI squeals whenever the Tories talk of immigration caps, and are spitting feathers now that they're actually implementing one (to the massive detriment of the economy because May is trying to achieve her arbitrary target by fucking off foreign students, who are a huge boon for the economy and employers both).

The CBI do not squeal about demonising immigrants because without this they would be easier to unionise and that would never do. Demonisation of immigrants also gets people pointing the finger at those who have even less than they do, whilst ignoring the near invisible and near invincible cunts that are actually robbing them blind.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Farage is replacing Boris as the right-wing press's favourite stooge for the time being, Murdoch's very keen on him, and he'll back UKIP to extract revenge for Cameron's failure to deliver BskyB to him, and the press regulation stuff.

 

[ymu]

The Tea Party has pretty much destroyed the Republicans, so it's not all bad news.

The bad news is that the parliamentary 'left' has been dragged further right than Thatcher/Reagan in the process (here as well as there). But at least the rot might stop and a change of direction become possible (not inevitable, possible).

 

[where to]

In 2013 a huge chunk of the population knows the consensus doesn't deliver any longer. Across Europe people are apparently moving away from the centre ground/ mainstream politics, but in no consistent way. The UKIP vote must firstly be seen in that context.

In Italy they get a bolshy comedian crackpot, in Greece the organised far left and right, Spain the Catalan nationalist pill and united left (no Spanish right organised, yet) seem to be filling the void. In the UK we get UKIP.

The policies are secondary imo. What matters is who is organised and shouts loudest/ gets the press megaphone moat often. In the UK that's UKIP.

I would call UKIP the placebo vote. It doesn't work, but its new so how can we be sure? People have no belief in any alternative economic model, no matter how shite the current one is. And anyway, it feels better and that's kind of the point. How many even know their economic policies ? Does.t really matter apparently.

They are 17% now but this is only just starting point as the potential size of the placebo vote is 40% or more.

The Left could fill this bits of this void, but only a new and aggressive Left. People are immune to the Left they've heard before. They don't believe it will work and they don't want nice, they want hard and on their side (eg Syriza , who are aggressive , for now , towards Berlin).

By summer UKIP will be up to 25%, barring exposure.

 

[trevhagl]

Don't think we've really done this one.

Labour vote lost votes to BNP between 1997 and 2010, but not to the left.

The Tory vote is going to their right. Why is this?

Why are Tory voters unhappy?

I can't say I saw this coming, or even understand it. Is it just small c conservatives unhappy on social issues and europe?

The Sun is the biggest selling 'news' paper in the country and there will always be those too dense to see beyond the rhetoric
also the "it costs us Xmillion a day to be in Europe" line is a crafty one . They are careful not to remind us that we wouldn't see a penny of money saved though

 

[trevhagl]

Ha ha fat old tories.

and a fucking berk who looks like Homer Simpson in a pinstripe suit

 

[Dogsauce]

Farage just reminds me of a slightly charming but clueless parish councillor, as played by Hugh Lawrie.

Can you imagine him out on a meet-and-greet walkabout in somewhere like Lewisham, encountering ordinary people? He wouldn't know what to say or do, he'd shit his pants.

(tbh the fact that he doesn't appear to pretend to like football and all the kind of 'I'm one of you, look I'm wearing a baseball cap' bullshit that the main party leaders do is almost to his credit - he's pretty much a straight-up space alien).

 

[likesfish]

Its a protest vote for people who wouldnt vote BNP but hate the other partys the lib dems used to be that route but since the coalition that gone.

Caroline lucas won here in brighton but thats probably a local thing.
The Left could fill this bits of this void, but only a new and aggressive Left. People are immune to the Left they've heard before. They don't believe it will work and they don't want nice, they want hard and on their side (eg Syriza , who are aggressive , for now , towards Berlin).

Unfortunatly you need a critical mass to be taken seriously tommy sheridan and George and scargill and the famous names on the left and they are rather dodge.
The swp while useless also appears to have joined the catholic church in a sex scandals.

A left that was grown up enough not to talk about revolution ( its not happening anytime soon so forget it.).
You can transform society with out a revoultion its just harder less immediate but it can be done

 

[trevhagl]

My mother (retired state registered childminder) announced she's voting for them. In her case I don't think it's an anti eu/ immigration stance - there are virtually no immigrants in the small Yorks mining town she lives in. No way is she racist. I think it's more a case of the other parties being utterly rubbish. My town has been labour as long as I've lived. Mum loathes the Tories, she needs an eye operation and can barely see. It was cancelled because of NHS cuts, after Condems came to power. She may have voted libdems in the past.
I've no idea what dad thinks of this (Nalgo member, staunch socialist). I haven't asked him!

the irony is UKIP would do exactly the same with the NHS as the real tories

 

[DotCommunist]

this hat is becoming increasingly popular with wannabe mavericks. Galloway has a leather one.

 

[butchersapron]

Taking their cues from Martin wright and Ian bone (sure i've also seen Nick h. looking rather snazzy in one as well).

 

[J Ed]

this hat is becoming increasingly popular with wannabe mavericks. Galloway has a leather one.

Very popular with 'Mens' Rights Activists' too, fedoras should be renamed cunt tops.

Not that MRA isn't 'intersectional' with UKIP nuttery http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-17911131

 

[DotCommunist]

sure of seen Laurrie Penny sporting one as well

 

[where to]

Vince cable too, similar anyway.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Very popular with 'Mens' Rights Activists' too, fedoras should be renamed cunt tops.

Fuck you, shitheel!

You'll have to pry my black fedora from my cold dead fingers.

 

[Delroy Booth]

is this one?

 

[MillwallShoes]

Ukip are naive old tories from the 80 s who never saw that privatisation would lead to globalisation and that globalisation would lead to a migrant mobile labour force that would compete for part time work with their offspring.

nailed in one.

 

[ViolentPanda]

is this one?

It is.
Mine doesn't have a broad ribbon on it like Hislop's though. Mine has a narrow leather band. He's formal, I'm "scruffy bastard".

 

[J Ed]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/22/will-sun-back-ukip-2015

I think that UKIP is being backed by Murdoch in the same way that he backed the Tea Party in the US, he is trying to push the overall political discourse to the right. The policies of UKIP and the Tea Party are remarkably similar, both claim to be freemarket libertarians while espousing what is basically a right-wing populist position. For example, the Tea Party claims to be pro-freemarket but supports a nationalised healthcare for the elderly in the form of medicare, UKIP claims to be libertarian while advocating the scrapping of tuition fees

You have a very similar populist, walking the zipline of acceptability, attitude towards race. UKIP, like The Tea Party, has a few 'non-white' members but its positions are utterly designed to appeal to the racial majority. The Tea Party made a lot of the 'Ground Zero Mosque' issue and Mexican immigration. UKIP wants to ban burkhas and whips up hatred against the prospect of an increase in Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants, they are even holding a demonstration against them.

Both the Tea Party and UKIP are being used to divert what would be serious opposition to neoliberalism into an ideology that is ostensibly anti-establishment but in reality would facilitate a kind of hyper-neoliberalism. This tactic is eerily familiar of the way in which the establishment used fascism and right-wing Catholic social teaching to divert people from socialism in the early 20th Century.

 

[Lo Siento.]

As an impressionistic aside, in the absence of social mobilisation on a significant scale, right-wing parties find it easier to grow as they are essentially just building on the logic of ideological production of society more broadly (something left-wing parties can do, but with more difficulty).